X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4176764 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:54:20 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (mail.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.34]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE63173675 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:53:39 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D358BEC05A for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:53:37 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Planning Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:53:37 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CACB6A.2A8FF5D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100323-1, 03/23/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CACB6A.2A8FF5D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don, David is correct about the wrapping hot stuff in SS, if I can comment = further, Al quickly dissipates heat to the surrounding air , where SS = retains and radiates heat to surrounding areas - something you can do = without. David is also right about thin pieces of SS burning, as in the exhaust = packing. George ( down under) Very nice job Don. All seems strangely familiar, though sounds like = you are really going to do it right. Will be a challenge to get it all = to fit, but I'm sure you can handle it. Free flow thoughts... that is the exact same radiator I have, but my = water lines are -16 in and -20 going back to the engine. Radiator is = over sized for the amount of boost that I am currently using. You could = probably trim it down somewhat if you find that you need the space. stock intercooler was just out of convenience for me. It is a little = undersized but adequate for modest boost. it really all depends on how = much power you are planning on, then you have to work backward and = decide how much intercooling you need. Or you can just take your best = guess like I did, but it means being careful and conservative when it = comes to figuring out detonation. Good choice getting rid of the hush power. Mine didn;t do much. but = that is the least of your worries. It is relatively easy to swap out = mufflers. I'll be interested to hear how the new Burns ones hold up... = but I'm not holding my breath. Stainless steel burns too. not all heat shields need to be SS. Instead of wrapping the hot stuff = in SS that is hard to work with and cuts into anything it vibrates = against, I have gone to protecting lot of stuff with aluminum. It is = ever so much easier to make, modify, remove, replace, and mount. Seems = to hold up fine if it just has 1/4 inch space from the hot stuff. Only = problem is that it won't tolerate direct contact with exhaust gasses. Have fun. I hope to make it up there again this year. Would be great = to check out your progress. --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Don Wallker = wrote: So here is where I am at so far. For those of you just tuning in, I = am flying a Renesis powered RV-8, with all of Tracy's stuff and a = Catto76/88 prop. Flys great, and I'm getting comfortable with it. = It's just not getting enough power. About 6080 static and 1450 ft/mn = climb at about 2200 rpm prop at 100 mph and that's at full throttle. = Max indicated at 8000ft, 54 degree day, 2440 on the prop and 205 oil and = 200 degree water. So I need more cooling and more power. I'm going to = attack both at once and get it all done. I'm roughly basing these changes on what Dave Leonard has done. = He's been through all this and has a fast powerful and dependable turbo = set up in a similar airplane. RV-6. And it runs cool! For more info = and pictures, check out Dave's website n4vy.rotaryroster.net Also a = lot of ideas from John, Scott, Chris, Steve etc. Radiator: C&R 3"x22x20, mounted under the oil pan. A 1" inlet and = outlet with short runs to the new water manifold that Ed is making. I'm = hoping I wont' have to build up the cowl, just cut into it, but I doubt = it. I will also have to increase the exit area and am not sure how to = do that yet. Oil cooler: Dave was using a Setrab, but they kept leaking. Tracy = is using a 30 row C&R cooler on his 3 rotor.PT# oc 238 30 an10, They = also make a 25 row that is about the same size as the setrab and should = work and fit nicely behind the right cheek and provide a nice short oil = line run. Throttle body: Probably a 75mm Mustang Intercooler: Dave is using a stock 91 Rx-7 one and I will probably = use the same. Hey, it fits! There will almost certainly need to be = some modifications to the inlet and outlet. I have a Tig and a neighbor = who is a great welder. We just tack things there, as I don't have enough = power in the hanger for continuous welding. Intake: I'm going to try and keep it totally on the left side of the = engine and will use the existing Rx-8 lower aluminum intake manifold. = I'll cut it down, grind it level and have a plate welded on top, with 4 = holes going to the intake tubes and short velocity stacks welded on. On = top and around will be the intake manifold itself. Just an aluminum box = with a throttle body attached. I'm not sure just where yet. It depends = on how much room there is. Combustion air will flow into the cowl, = possibly from down by the radiator, or from a naca scoop on the side, = to the turbo compressor, through it to the inner cooler and through it = and back to the throttle body. Not sure where the injectors will go, = but I'll try to use the existing injector holes. May have to use the = Simple Digital injector mounts. Note, fire sleeve all fuel lines. It = solved half my vapor lock problems. Turbo: will be mounted on the left side of the engine and a little = back from directly out from the exhaust. May be 3 to 4 inches. This = should give me room for the inner cooler and intake manifold. But I may = not have room for the fuel pumps and filters and they may have to go = back inside the cabin, by my feet. Not a bad idea. I'll use 321 ss and = make an equal length exhaust manifold with a waste gate port that will = run to the output side of the turbine. The exhaust out of the turbine = will bend down and out the back cowl exit to a muffler. I'm going to = try the new Burns all SS muffler that some of the rotary racers are = using. They use stainless steel scruble for the packing. Can't burn = that out! and it's 3 lbs and my existing Hushpower is 9. There will = be a oil line going to the turbo with a normally open solenoid on it and = an exit line out. It will be 5/8ths and run down and around the engine = to the other side where it will go through the side of the engine, like = I have the RD-c return line. I don't want to have to pull the engine = out of the mount, but that is the only way. If someone knows a better = place to run it back into, let me know. The turbo will be supported by = more than the exhaust. When the exhaust is finished, it will be sent = for Jet Hot coating. There will be a SS shroud around the turbo and = the same for the exhaust. I still don't know if I should use a wet or = dry turbo housing, but more on that in the next post. Your thoughts, comments and questions are encouraged. Don Walker N113BR, 28 hours -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CACB6A.2A8FF5D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Don,
David is correct about the wrapping = hot stuff in=20 SS, if I can  comment further, Al quickly dissipates = heat to=20 the surrounding air , where SS retains and radiates heat to = surrounding areas=20 - something you can do without.
David is also right about thin pieces = of SS=20 burning, as in the exhaust packing.
George ( down under)
 
Very nice job = Don.  All=20 seems strangely familiar, though sounds like you are really going to = do it=20 right.  Will be a challenge to get it all to fit, but I'm sure = you can=20 handle it.

Free flow thoughts...  that is the exact same = radiator=20 I have, but my water lines are -16 in and -20 going back to the = engine. =20 Radiator is over sized for the amount of boost that I am currently=20 using.  You could probably trim it down somewhat if you find that = you=20 need the space.

stock intercooler was just out of convenience = for=20 me.  It is a little undersized but adequate for modest = boost.  it=20 really all depends on how much power you are planning on, then you = have to=20 work backward and decide how much intercooling you need.   = Or you=20 can just take your best guess like I did, but it means being careful = and=20 conservative when it comes to figuring out detonation.

Good = choice=20 getting rid of the hush power.  Mine didn;t do much. but that is = the=20 least of your worries.  It is relatively easy to swap out = mufflers. =20 I'll be interested to hear how the new Burns ones hold up... but I'm = not=20 holding my breath.  Stainless steel burns too.

not all = heat=20 shields need to be SS.  Instead of wrapping the hot stuff in SS = that is=20 hard to work with and cuts into anything it vibrates against, I have = gone to=20 protecting lot of stuff with aluminum.  It is ever so much easier = to=20 make, modify, remove, replace, and mount.  Seems to hold up fine = if it=20 just has 1/4 inch space from the hot stuff.  Only problem is that = it=20 won't tolerate direct contact with exhaust gasses.

Have = fun.  I=20 hope to make it up there again this year.  Would be great to = check out=20 your progress.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 = N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net


On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Don Wallker = <drwalker@gbis.com> = wrote:
So=20 here is where I am at so far. For those of you just tuning in, I am = flying a=20 Renesis powered RV-8, with all of Tracy's stuff and a Catto76/88 = prop.=20  Flys great, and I'm getting  comfortable with it. =  It's just=20 not getting enough power.  About 6080 static and 1450 ft/mn = climb at=20 about 2200 rpm prop at 100 mph and that's at full throttle. =  Max=20 indicated at 8000ft, 54 degree day, 2440 on the prop and 205 oil and = 200=20 degree water.  So I need more cooling and more power.  I'm = going=20 to attack both at once and get it all done.
I'm roughly basing = these=20 changes on what Dave Leonard has done.  He's been through all = this and=20 has a fast powerful and dependable turbo set up in a similar = airplane. RV-6.=20  And it runs cool!  For more info and pictures, check out = Dave's=20 website n4vy.rotaryroster.net   Also a lot of ideas = from=20 John, Scott, Chris, Steve etc.

Radiator: C&R 3"x22x20, = mounted=20 under the oil pan.  A 1" inlet and outlet with short runs to = the new=20 water manifold that Ed is making. I'm hoping I wont' have to build = up=20  the cowl, just cut into it, but I doubt it.  I will also = have to=20 increase the exit area and am not sure how to do that = yet.

Oil=20 cooler: Dave was using a Setrab, but they kept leaking.  Tracy = is using=20 a 30 row C&R cooler on his 3 rotor.PT# oc 238 30 an10,   = They also=20 make a 25 row that is about the same size as the setrab and should = work and=20 fit nicely behind the right cheek and provide a nice short oil line=20 run.

Throttle body:  Probably a 75mm = Mustang

Intercooler:=20  Dave is using a stock 91 Rx-7 one and I will probably use the = same.=20  Hey, it fits!  There will almost certainly need to be = some=20 modifications to the inlet and outlet.  I have a Tig and a = neighbor who=20 is a great welder. We just tack things there, as I don't have enough = power=20 in the hanger for continuous welding.

Intake: I'm going to = try and=20 keep it totally on the left side of the engine and will use the = existing=20 Rx-8 lower aluminum intake manifold.  I'll cut it down, grind = it level=20 and have a plate welded on top, with 4 holes going to the intake = tubes and=20 short velocity stacks welded on.  On top and around will be the = intake=20 manifold itself.  Just an aluminum box with a throttle body = attached.=20  I'm not sure just where yet.  It depends on how much room = there=20 is.  Combustion air will flow into the cowl, possibly from down = by the=20 radiator, or from a naca scoop on the side,  to the turbo = compressor,=20 through it to the inner cooler and through it and back to the = throttle body.=20  Not sure where the injectors will go, but I'll try to use the = existing=20 injector holes.   May have to use the Simple Digital injector = mounts.=20  Note, fire sleeve all fuel lines.  It solved half my = vapor lock=20 problems.

Turbo: will be mounted on the left side of the = engine and a=20 little back from directly out from the exhaust.  May be 3 to 4 = inches.=20  This should give me room for the inner cooler and intake = manifold.=20  But I may not have room for the fuel pumps and filters and = they may=20 have to go back inside the cabin, by my feet.  Not a bad idea.=20  I'll use 321 ss and make an equal length exhaust manifold with = a waste=20 gate port that will run to the output side of the turbine.  The = exhaust=20 out of the turbine will bend down and out the back cowl exit to a = muffler.=20  I'm going to try the new Burns all SS muffler that some of the = rotary=20 racers are using.  They use stainless steel scruble for the = packing.=20  Can't burn that out! and it's 3 lbs and my existing Hushpower = is 9.=20    There will be a oil line going to the turbo with a = normally=20 open solenoid on it and an exit line out.  It will be 5/8ths = and run=20 down and around the engine to the other side where it will go = through the=20 side of the engine, like I have the RD-c return line.  I don't = want to=20 have to pull the engine out of the mount, but that is the only way. =  If=20 someone knows a better  place to run it back into, let me know. =  The turbo will be supported by more than the exhaust. =  When the=20 exhaust is finished, it will be sent for Jet Hot coating. =  There will=20 be a SS shroud around the turbo and  the same for the exhaust. =  I=20 still don't know if I should use a wet or dry turbo housing, but = more on=20 that in the next post.
  Your thoughts, comments and = questions are=20 encouraged.

Don Walker
N113BR, 28 hours



--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l


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