X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-pw0-f52.google.com ([209.85.160.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4176749 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:43:47 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.52; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by pwj9 with SMTP id 9so4754248pwj.25 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:43:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:received:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2e9OUJlSwILdY1mKatgDlfiaXjYueKh9JYru1GDLZKI=; b=aPS088UiNQxVRurHd0mjqHYN6V1A8fubXd3zvPhiizKcUHw5JAgU54+TEUvRygyLX7 gKLX2fguZ1J2AHXQ/CsstBmSY79Uh9y0S1bvDaSNlgLBBwZl7jGxQ45nBmbokuvFE66S iBLxed8UgxlzIKBmEj1Hu/c6o73lNiiBqerZ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=pHEj9ObazllyM2Dg0jIPgS0zdr3hb71jUWYKhgwNzzLnkg9skzx/y7IDqKkCoZKmOL MhgaCXTHfDFKPTNJ1I5+r+p7NzStT4Ty3VtrFLDUmNgPwmsvicEUYy5y/3DB3GASZ0CS MVdh3+ZuyvvMFBuoNAZGwQcYRc4LwNfxR5zC0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.173.8 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:33:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:33:44 -0700 Received: by 10.141.88.2 with SMTP id q2mr131438rvl.2.1269408824810; Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1c23473f1003232233q2d77c76ft2be21c2311cc5fb9@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Turbo Planning From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd138a013dd5204828546c5 --000e0cd138a013dd5204828546c5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Very nice job Don. All seems strangely familiar, though sounds like you are really going to do it right. Will be a challenge to get it all to fit, but I'm sure you can handle it. Free flow thoughts... that is the exact same radiator I have, but my water lines are -16 in and -20 going back to the engine. Radiator is over sized for the amount of boost that I am currently using. You could probably trim it down somewhat if you find that you need the space. stock intercooler was just out of convenience for me. It is a little undersized but adequate for modest boost. it really all depends on how much power you are planning on, then you have to work backward and decide how much intercooling you need. Or you can just take your best guess like I did, but it means being careful and conservative when it comes to figuring out detonation. Good choice getting rid of the hush power. Mine didn;t do much. but that is the least of your worries. It is relatively easy to swap out mufflers. I'll be interested to hear how the new Burns ones hold up... but I'm not holding my breath. Stainless steel burns too. not all heat shields need to be SS. Instead of wrapping the hot stuff in SS that is hard to work with and cuts into anything it vibrates against, I have gone to protecting lot of stuff with aluminum. It is ever so much easier to make, modify, remove, replace, and mount. Seems to hold up fine if it just has 1/4 inch space from the hot stuff. Only problem is that it won't tolerate direct contact with exhaust gasses. Have fun. I hope to make it up there again this year. Would be great to check out your progress. -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Don Wallker wrote: > So here is where I am at so far. For those of you just tuning in, I am > flying a Renesis powered RV-8, with all of Tracy's stuff and a Catto76/88 > prop. Flys great, and I'm getting comfortable with it. It's just not > getting enough power. About 6080 static and 1450 ft/mn climb at about 2200 > rpm prop at 100 mph and that's at full throttle. Max indicated at 8000ft, > 54 degree day, 2440 on the prop and 205 oil and 200 degree water. So I need > more cooling and more power. I'm going to attack both at once and get it > all done. > I'm roughly basing these changes on what Dave Leonard has done. He's been > through all this and has a fast powerful and dependable turbo set up in a > similar airplane. RV-6. And it runs cool! For more info and pictures, > check out Dave's website n4vy.rotaryroster.net Also a lot of ideas from > John, Scott, Chris, Steve etc. > > Radiator: C&R 3"x22x20, mounted under the oil pan. A 1" inlet and outlet > with short runs to the new water manifold that Ed is making. I'm hoping I > wont' have to build up the cowl, just cut into it, but I doubt it. I will > also have to increase the exit area and am not sure how to do that yet. > > Oil cooler: Dave was using a Setrab, but they kept leaking. Tracy is using > a 30 row C&R cooler on his 3 rotor.PT# oc 238 30 an10, They also make a 25 > row that is about the same size as the setrab and should work and fit nicely > behind the right cheek and provide a nice short oil line run. > > Throttle body: Probably a 75mm Mustang > > Intercooler: Dave is using a stock 91 Rx-7 one and I will probably use the > same. Hey, it fits! There will almost certainly need to be some > modifications to the inlet and outlet. I have a Tig and a neighbor who is a > great welder. We just tack things there, as I don't have enough power in the > hanger for continuous welding. > > Intake: I'm going to try and keep it totally on the left side of the engine > and will use the existing Rx-8 lower aluminum intake manifold. I'll cut it > down, grind it level and have a plate welded on top, with 4 holes going to > the intake tubes and short velocity stacks welded on. On top and around > will be the intake manifold itself. Just an aluminum box with a throttle > body attached. I'm not sure just where yet. It depends on how much room > there is. Combustion air will flow into the cowl, possibly from down by the > radiator, or from a naca scoop on the side, to the turbo compressor, > through it to the inner cooler and through it and back to the throttle body. > Not sure where the injectors will go, but I'll try to use the existing > injector holes. May have to use the Simple Digital injector mounts. Note, > fire sleeve all fuel lines. It solved half my vapor lock problems. > > Turbo: will be mounted on the left side of the engine and a little back > from directly out from the exhaust. May be 3 to 4 inches. This should give > me room for the inner cooler and intake manifold. But I may not have room > for the fuel pumps and filters and they may have to go back inside the > cabin, by my feet. Not a bad idea. I'll use 321 ss and make an equal > length exhaust manifold with a waste gate port that will run to the output > side of the turbine. The exhaust out of the turbine will bend down and out > the back cowl exit to a muffler. I'm going to try the new Burns all SS > muffler that some of the rotary racers are using. They use stainless steel > scruble for the packing. Can't burn that out! and it's 3 lbs and my > existing Hushpower is 9. There will be a oil line going to the turbo with > a normally open solenoid on it and an exit line out. It will be 5/8ths and > run down and around the engine to the other side where it will go through > the side of the engine, like I have the RD-c return line. I don't want to > have to pull the engine out of the mount, but that is the only way. If > someone knows a better place to run it back into, let me know. The turbo > will be supported by more than the exhaust. When the exhaust is finished, > it will be sent for Jet Hot coating. There will be a SS shroud around the > turbo and the same for the exhaust. I still don't know if I should use a > wet or dry turbo housing, but more on that in the next post. > Your thoughts, comments and questions are encouraged. > > Don Walker > N113BR, 28 hours > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --000e0cd138a013dd5204828546c5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very nice job Don.=A0 All seems strangely familiar, though sounds like you = are really going to do it right.=A0 Will be a challenge to get it all to fi= t, but I'm sure you can handle it.

Free flow thoughts...=A0 that= is the exact same radiator I have, but my water lines are -16 in and -20 g= oing back to the engine.=A0 Radiator is over sized for the amount of boost = that I am currently using.=A0 You could probably trim it down somewhat if y= ou find that you need the space.

stock intercooler was just out of convenience for me.=A0 It is a little= undersized but adequate for modest boost.=A0 it really all depends on how = much power you are planning on, then you have to work backward and decide h= ow much intercooling you need.=A0=A0 Or you can just take your best guess l= ike I did, but it means being careful and conservative when it comes to fig= uring out detonation.

Good choice getting rid of the hush power.=A0 Mine didn;t do much. but = that is the least of your worries.=A0 It is relatively easy to swap out muf= flers.=A0 I'll be interested to hear how the new Burns ones hold up... = but I'm not holding my breath.=A0 Stainless steel burns too.

not all heat shields need to be SS.=A0 Instead of wrapping the hot stuf= f in SS that is hard to work with and cuts into anything it vibrates agains= t, I have gone to protecting lot of stuff with aluminum.=A0 It is ever so m= uch easier to make, modify, remove, replace, and mount.=A0 Seems to hold up= fine if it just has 1/4 inch space from the hot stuff.=A0 Only problem is = that it won't tolerate direct contact with exhaust gasses.

Have fun.=A0 I hope to make it up there again this year.=A0 Would be gr= eat to check out your progress.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Ro= tary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.Rota= ryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


=
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Don Wallker <drwalker@gbis.com> wrote:
So here is where = I am at so far. For those of you just tuning in, I am flying a Renesis powe= red RV-8, with all of Tracy's stuff and a Catto76/88 prop. =A0Flys grea= t, and I'm getting =A0comfortable with it. =A0It's just not getting= enough power. =A0About 6080 static and 1450 ft/mn climb at about 2200 rpm = prop at 100 mph and that's at full throttle. =A0Max indicated at 8000ft= , 54 degree day, 2440 on the prop and 205 oil and 200 degree water. =A0So I= need more cooling and more power. =A0I'm going to attack both at once = and get it all done.
I'm roughly basing these changes on what Dave Leonard has done. =A0He&#= 39;s been through all this and has a fast powerful and dependable turbo set= up in a similar airplane. RV-6. =A0And it runs cool! =A0For more info and = pictures, check out Dave's website n4vy.rotaryroster.net =A0 Also a lot of ideas fr= om John, Scott, Chris, Steve etc.

Radiator: C&R 3"x22x20, mounted under the oil pan. =A0A 1" in= let and outlet with short runs to the new water manifold that Ed is making.= I'm hoping I wont' have to build up =A0the cowl, just cut into it,= but I doubt it. =A0I will also have to increase the exit area and am not s= ure how to do that yet.

Oil cooler: Dave was using a Setrab, but they kept leaking. =A0Tracy is usi= ng a 30 row C&R cooler on his 3 rotor.PT# oc 238 30 an10, =A0 They also= make a 25 row that is about the same size as the setrab and should work an= d fit nicely behind the right cheek and provide a nice short oil line run.<= br>
Throttle body: =A0Probably a 75mm Mustang

Intercooler: =A0Dave is using a stock 91 Rx-7 one and I will probably use t= he same. =A0Hey, it fits! =A0There will almost certainly need to be some mo= difications to the inlet and outlet. =A0I have a Tig and a neighbor who is = a great welder. We just tack things there, as I don't have enough power= in the hanger for continuous welding.

Intake: I'm going to try and keep it totally on the left side of the en= gine and will use the existing Rx-8 lower aluminum intake manifold. =A0I= 9;ll cut it down, grind it level and have a plate welded on top, with 4 hol= es going to the intake tubes and short velocity stacks welded on. =A0On top= and around will be the intake manifold itself. =A0Just an aluminum box wit= h a throttle body attached. =A0I'm not sure just where yet. =A0It depen= ds on how much room there is. =A0Combustion air will flow into the cowl, po= ssibly from down by the radiator, or from a naca scoop on the side, =A0to t= he turbo compressor, through it to the inner cooler and through it and back= to the throttle body. =A0Not sure where the injectors will go, but I'l= l try to use the existing injector holes. =A0 May have to use the Simple Di= gital injector mounts. =A0Note, fire sleeve all fuel lines. =A0It solved ha= lf my vapor lock problems.

Turbo: will be mounted on the left side of the engine and a little back fro= m directly out from the exhaust. =A0May be 3 to 4 inches. =A0This should gi= ve me room for the inner cooler and intake manifold. =A0But I may not have = room for the fuel pumps and filters and they may have to go back inside the= cabin, by my feet. =A0Not a bad idea. =A0I'll use 321 ss and make an e= qual length exhaust manifold with a waste gate port that will run to the ou= tput side of the turbine. =A0The exhaust out of the turbine will bend down = and out the back cowl exit to a muffler. =A0I'm going to try the new Bu= rns all SS muffler that some of the rotary racers are using. =A0They use st= ainless steel scruble for the packing. =A0Can't burn that out! and it&#= 39;s 3 lbs and my existing Hushpower is 9. =A0 =A0There will be a oil line = going to the turbo with a normally open solenoid on it and an exit line out= . =A0It will be 5/8ths and run down and around the engine to the other side= where it will go through the side of the engine, like I have the RD-c retu= rn line. =A0I don't want to have to pull the engine out of the mount, b= ut that is the only way. =A0If someone knows a better =A0place to run it ba= ck into, let me know. =A0The turbo will be supported by more than the exhau= st. =A0When the exhaust is finished, it will be sent for Jet Hot coating. = =A0There will be a SS shroud around the turbo and =A0the same for the exhau= st. =A0I still don't know if I should use a wet or dry turbo housing, b= ut more on that in the next post.
=A0 Your thoughts, comments and questions are encouraged.

Don Walker
N113BR, 28 hours



--
Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html



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