X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-pv0-f180.google.com ([74.125.83.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4176753 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:37:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.83.180; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by pvc22 with SMTP id 22so3388562pvc.25 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:36:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=jjM/l/2ryYQYYZZ00Hk+ObnRaPYsX4Px6nrSr3l8VZ8=; b=CxNm6qkV+yvU6F4jVk4Nia7CqwPgBY6GtegNGSKuQhw5ayxIalPUB8WjpXz+gJh0jH TODlpXEAg/2JbX+z8OlqSGpw5E5KFvR9oPGie2MUQzE6xRKVQk+wCFaX0cN0H8ooI1Aj gJ7Er9P7+yAIu+JJ3p8D0IL6WbO5hF/zRvFEo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=JWa8CV1hOJPQbexmY5Gxg8NLXcbdwNTTM9GSjHMbK2Nvq8AwDMFuHezxMYV/8a7BP1 rST1PHjB6V9g9GAk2HksjO2QZT80dsy4Rgjw0Ucw8FMyvVWgg2aF+Vq57/NhLK5qTCgR mFzq1yQfz8+P+TRvLhU1nx0JZW4bU7Hs5zjwE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.84.6 with SMTP id m6mr836296wfl.162.1269409003750; Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:36:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:36:43 -0700 Message-ID: <1c23473f1003232236u2276fed4o1d44e902e9a73ece@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Adaptor plate rivets From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd5f534be47960482855041 --000e0cd5f534be47960482855041 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I tried to check my plate for smoking rivets today, but the shop head is against the flywheel and I can't see a thing. The round heads all seem fine. Couldn't detect any that seem loose or smoking or anything. Will just have to keep an eye on it. --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Bill Bradburry w= rote: > Lynn, > > Do you have one of those Dyno sheets that starts at a lower rpm? Say bel= ow > 4 or 5K? I mentioned the other day that if we don=92t have the rpms we = don=92t > have the horsepower. I would like to see what the HP looks like at the > lower rpms. The torque is pretty flat for the rotary so we would have th= e > same torque throughout the range. (at the prop times the PSRU ratio). > > > > Bill B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Lynn Hanover > *Sent:* Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:12 AM > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Adaptor plate rivets > > The rotary has poor torque output. It has three built in flywheels. The > crank and two nearly 10 pound rotors, the longer crank and three for a th= ree > rotor. The engine cannot put a higher torque load into the adaptor plate > than it can manufacture, plus inertial loading peaks. Minimal for a two o= r > three rotor, profound for a single rotor. > > > > Every clutch pack I have disassembled so far has those radial paths marke= d > out in oily filth. It has never indicated a failing rivet. It is a glimps= e > into the world of crankcase breathing gasses showing up everywhere near a= ny > engine running at high power settings. Even real 1929 designs from Lycomi= ng > and Continental. > > > > The disc is one element from a Tesla turbine, made more effective by the > rivet heads and bolt heads and such. So, it produces a hurricane force wi= nd > on both sides of the disc that circulates in a kind of a donut shape. Dir= t > and dust from the ground, even safety wire clippings will be picked up by > this wind, and in some cases will be expelled at such a velocity that ove= r > time, the inside of any surface exposed to the disc will become roughened > like sand paper. > > > > So, a supply of oil and wire clippings are provided by you, the dust and > filth by everyone else, the centrifugal flow provide the radial markings. > > > > Shifting a dog ring transmission without the clutch produces higher > inertial loadings than anything you will find in this adaptor plate. Clut= ch > centers are riveted as well but only on a 3" circle. Never had a loose on= e > since 1980. > > > > Crankcase gasses contain unburnt fuel, (why the oil supply seems to > increase with time) oil vapor, and a mixture of water and sulphur compoun= ds > that condense as sulfuric acid. > > > > This stuff is explosive and needs to be delt with. Same for piston engine= s. > Never weld or grind anything near an open breather tube catch tank or oil > separator. The pitiful 1/8" tube stuck into the oil filler tube in the st= ock > Mazda engine is fine for the street, so long as long runs at high power a= re > not used. So probably you want a bigger breather tube to an oil separator= , > if you like, and then to a catch tank to keep this crap off of the floor= or > ramp. Or, some can be piped to the intake manifold as in the street car. > > > > This re breathing of waste products does no damage (OK very little damage= ) > and requires no nasty hose hanging out the bottom of the cowl. > > > > I would check each rivet head for loose and clean off the disc and move o= n. > > > > But I could be completely wrong.......... > > > > Lynn E. Hanover > --000e0cd5f534be47960482855041 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I tried to check my plate for smoking rivets today, but the shop head is ag= ainst the flywheel and I can't see a thing.=A0 The round heads all seem= fine.=A0 Couldn't detect any that seem loose or smoking or anything.= =A0 Will just have to keep an eye on it.


--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Lynn,

Do you have one of those Dyno sheets that starts at = a lower rpm?=A0 Say below 4 or 5K?=A0=A0 I mentioned the other day that if we don=92t have the rpms we don=92t have the horsepower.=A0 I would like to see what the HP looks like at the lower rpms.=A0 The torque is pretty flat for the rotar= y so we would have the same torque throughout the range.=A0 (at the prop time= s the PSRU ratio).

=A0

Bill B

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Hanover
Sent: Thursday, March 18, = 2010 9:12 AM


To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary]= Adaptor plate rivets

The rotary has poor torque output. It has three buil= t in flywheels. The crank and two nearly 10 pound rotors, the longer crank and three for a thre= e rotor. =A0The engine cannot put a higher torque load into the adaptor plate than it can manufacture, plus inertial loading peaks. Minimal for a two or three rotor, profound for a single rotor.

=A0

Every clutch pack I have disassembled so far has tho= se radial paths marked out in oily filth. It has never indicated a failing rivet. It is a glimpse into the world of crankcase breathing gasses showing up everywhere = near any engine running at high power settings. Even real 1929 designs from Lyco= ming and Continental.

=A0

The disc is one element from a Tesla turbine, made m= ore effective by the rivet heads and bolt heads and such. So, it produces a hurricane force = wind on both sides of the disc that circulates in a kind of a donut shape. Dirt = and dust from the ground, even safety wire clippings will be picked up by this wind, and in some cases will be expelled at such a velocity that over time,= the inside of any surface exposed to the disc will become roughened like sand paper.

=A0

So, a supply of oil and wire clippings are provided = by you, the dust and filth by everyone else, the centrifugal flow provide the radial marking= s.

=A0

Shifting a dog ring transmission without the clutch = produces higher inertial loadings than anything you will find in this adaptor plate. Clutch centers are riveted as well but only on a 3" circle. Never had a loose= one since 1980.

=A0

Crankcase gasses contain unburnt fuel,=A0(why the oi= l supply seems to increase with time) oil vapor, and a mixture of water and sulphur compou= nds that condense as sulfuric acid.

=A0

This stuff is explosive and needs to be delt with. S= ame for piston engines. Never weld or grind anything near an open breather tube catch tank= or oil separator. The pitiful 1/8" tube stuck into the oil filler tube in= the stock Mazda engine is fine for the street, so long as long runs at high pow= er are not used. So probably you want a bigger breather tube to an oil separat= or, if you=A0 like, and then to a catch tank to keep this crap off of the floor or ramp. Or, some can be piped to the intake manifold as in the street car.= =A0

=A0

This re breathing of waste products does no damage (= OK very little damage) and requires no nasty hose hanging out the bottom of the cowl.=A0

=A0

I would check each rivet head for loose and clean of= f the disc and move on.

=A0

But I could be completely wrong..........

=A0

Lynn E. Hanover=A0




--000e0cd5f534be47960482855041--