X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao103.cox.net ([68.230.241.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4173618 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:21:16 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.43; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100321152040.SDNA22711.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:20:40 -0400 Received: from willsPC ([68.105.86.80]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id vrLf1d00G1k005Q04rLfAQ; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:20:39 -0400 X-VR-Score: 0.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=KqzZVGv1/pIBe+XbL3gCBfL8vaFXECOST7Bs1vfp5Gs= c=1 sm=1 a=DvXKY4kB2HcA:10 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:17 a=acfi07PRUs98TdiXh50A:9 a=UZTCnyS--U91ZTiF4kPLZvY0mVMA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=qYNf-aZOjYi4WBSJ:21 a=KzLSj3PdNM5pAStp:21 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=2sfa7kHQxsLe51iozuQA:9 a=P2hdE9FdNycUlygrgcwA:7 a=X8Mt_ZpvXmlD_0wApc-Gw8vy1LcA:4 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: Question on RD2-C Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 08:20:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01CAC8CF.63C87EF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CAC8CF.63C87EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Al, I don't recall - did you say you also have visible signs of smoking = rivets? If not, no worries. Exchanging the rivets for bolts, I agree. If doing this I would use the = close tolerance MS bolts Vans requires for the spar - fuselage attach = rather than standard AN-3. Other alternatives would include simply = adding more rivets (if possible), or using some sort of adhesive with = the rivets. I remember reading somewhere that for most riveted joints, = Lear used Proseal on all joints in addition to riveting on the Learjet. Mike From: Al Gietzen=20 Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:53 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: Question on RD2-C The rivets are aluminum.=20 I find this surprising, as well as disappointing. I checked the rivets on my RD2-C damper assembly and was able to confirm = that they were in fact beginning to loosen as evidenced by the radial = streaks on the damper plate. I picked four rivets at random, approx. 90 = degrees apart, and grabbed the shop heads with vice grips and tried to = spin them. All four would spin with little effort, thus confirming that = they were beginning to loosen. After a phone call to Tracy, we decided = to replace the ring of rivets with AN3 bolts, which I've now done. One advantage to rivets is that they fill the holes to zero tolerance. = The bolts will be MUCH stronger, but I'm wondering about the potential = for some very small amount of 'play' to begin with, which would not be a = good thing. I don't know much about steel rivets, but maybe that's the = way to go. =20 Mark; what nominal length and grip length on the bolts? Are you using = standard AN bolts or are there 'true' diameter or 'close tolerance' = bolts available. Al Hum-m-m; I just decided I could change schedules in order to fly to the = Jean, NV gathering next week. Now I'm wondering whether to fly anywhere = before changing out the rivets. I'm thinking that since I see no = movement between flange and plate after 180 hours, it should be good for = at least a few more hours. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CAC8CF.63C87EF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Al,
 
I don=92t recall - did you say you also have = visible signs=20 of smoking rivets? If not, no worries.
 
Exchanging the rivets for bolts, I agree. If = doing this=20 I would use the close tolerance MS bolts Vans requires for the spar - = fuselage=20 attach rather than standard AN-3. Other alternatives would include = simply adding=20 more rivets (if possible), or using some sort of adhesive with the = rivets. I=20 remember reading somewhere that for most riveted joints, Lear used = Proseal on=20 all joints in addition to riveting on the = Learjet.
 
Mike

From: Al Gietzen
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: Question on = RD2-C

The rivets are = aluminum. 

 

I find this surprising, = as well as=20 disappointing.

 

I checked the = rivets on my=20 RD2-C damper assembly and was able to confirm that they were in fact = beginning=20 to loosen as evidenced by the radial streaks on the damper plate. =  I picked=20 four rivets at random, approx. 90 degrees apart, and grabbed the shop = heads with=20 vice grips and tried to spin them.  All four would spin with little = effort,=20 thus confirming that they were beginning to loosen.  After a phone = call to=20 Tracy, we decided to replace the ring of rivets with AN3 = bolts,=20 which I've now done.

One = advantage to=20 rivets is that they fill the holes to zero tolerance.  The bolts = will be=20 MUCH stronger, but I=92m wondering about the potential for some very = small amount=20 of =91play=92 to begin with, which would not be a good thing.  I = don=92t know=20 much about steel rivets, but maybe that=92s the way to go.=20  

 

Mark; what = nominal=20 length and grip length on the bolts? Are you using standard AN bolts or = are=20 there =91true=92 diameter or =91close tolerance=92 bolts = available.

 

Al

 

Hum-m-m; I = just=20 decided I could change schedules in order to fly to the Jean, NV = gathering next=20 week. Now I=92m wondering whether to fly anywhere before changing out = the rivets.=20 I=92m thinking that since I see no movement between flange and plate = after 180=20 hours, it should be good for at least a few more=20 hours.

 

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