X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao103.cox.net ([68.230.241.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with ESMTP id 4165759 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:00:38 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.43; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100315020001.UDXV19579.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:00:01 -0400 Received: from willsPC ([68.105.86.80]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id tE021d0091k005Q03E02ge; Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:00:02 -0400 X-VR-Score: -40.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=qY0/QvRffkjURHWZjC3q+nTs9PdPIIJxYa32KydkvE8= c=1 sm=1 a=GkVrOFAuG9wA:10 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:17 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=HSglleVFlNEp_F0AAF8A:9 a=LTvkUKM981Aa2PYl6TYA:7 a=PTWum2AsCr3E9d5MM9WW6BxPK0UA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=AZ_Wxlofz2Hjzj2Cyf8A:9 a=2Z--0PMrZnxMYCdtAzUA:7 a=wXzczFdh48lm617_MgHL5Bzhb98A:4 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <938C130A7FAE46BF8C1A51351973F400@willsPC> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel supply problem? Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:00:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A5_01CAC3A8.8C13F280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01CAC3A8.8C13F280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Update. There was a little over 7 gallons left in the tank (out of 15.5 = total). I don't see how its possible that the pickup could have sucked = air with that much fuel in the tank. The filter was clean. I drained all the fuel from the tank and there was = a couple of tiny pieces of Proseal, but not enough to plug the pickup. I = used compressed air to blow through the pickup then refilled and drained = again. Nothing obvious. So I don't have anything conclusive to blame = this on. I'll take David's suggestion and stick a borescope down in the = tank but since its been flushed I don't expect to find anything. I = havent tried flying it again. I don't want to be the second rotary RV in = as many days to end up on the local news. Mike Wills From: Ed Anderson=20 Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel supply problem? Enough to get your heart pumping for sure. Been there {:>) =20 Early in my flying days, I was in a similar type turn and was paying = more attention to the buildings I had my wing tip anchored to than I = should have been. All of a sudden, the engine started unwinding with a = vengeance. I immediately leveled the air plane, where upon the engine = caught again - but I was down to the last gallon or less - switched = tanks and all was OK. I suspected that perhaps my "coordinated" turn = was not as coordinated as I had thought. =20 Both of my pumps can suck fuel from either tank, so can't help you = there. I personally do not favor the one tank- one pump approach due to = the fact if you did lose a pump - you could possibly lose access to a = lot (perhaps a tank) of fuel. No problem flying locally perhaps, but a = different story if between the west coast and New Mexico {:>). But, I = realize there are advantages such as not needing a valve to switch = tanks, but similar to having two CPUs for the fuel injectors either one = of which can run the full set of injectors, I prefer both pumps having = access to both tanks. =20 Also, just for the heck of it you might check the tank for water. I = flew into Shady Bend one time with my left tank dry. Sat out through a = few rain shows, took off the next day and landed at Waycross, GA and = filled the left tank and topped of the right one. About 30 minutes out, = I decided to switch to the left tank, within seconds of switching the = engine started surging. Having learned my lesson about switching tanks = on my 12 mile glide a few years ago, I immediately switched back to the = other tank and thankfully, everything returned to normal. I flew a bit = further and go over a suitable air field and switched back to the left = tank, again the surging - but I left it on this time an in about 20-30 = seconds the surge disappeared. I thought I might have picked up some bad = fuel - but not the case. =20 Yep, you got it - should have drain the tanks for water, which I failed = to do that morning. I can't prove it was water, but I did discover my = left tank cap was not sealing as it should and I suspect the empty tank = accumulated a cup or less of water. It settled to the bottom by the = time I had flow 30 minutes and when I switched over all I got for the = first 30 seconds or so was watery fuel which the engine did not like. =20 So be careful - Mike. But, then that is what this test phase is all = about - find out what might bite you while you are close to home. =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:49 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] fuel supply problem? =20 Was out boring holes in the sky today trying to accumulate hours - = finally a day off with no rain. About 2 hours into the flight, running = on the left tank, and making a gentle left turn (maybe 20 - 30 degrees = of bank), and the engine lost power. About 2 seconds later the engine = monitor alarmed that the fuel pressure was below limits. By the time the = alarm sounded I had already switched tanks and power was coming back up. = My airplane is set up with 1 pump for each tank, so switching tanks = actually means switching pumps too. =20 Needless to say I returned home immediately on the right tank and the = airplane ran OK all the way back. Once on the ground I did a full power = runup switching tanks repeatedly and everything was fine. I'm not = certain how much fuel is in the left tank, I'm guessing about 5 gallons. = I'll find out tomorrow when I top off the tanks.=20 =20 The only thing I can guess is maybe the fuel in the tank drained away = from the pickup in the turn? The turn was coordinated so in theory the = pickup should have remained submerged. I might have to re-think the fuel = system. =20 Mike Wills __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01CAC3A8.8C13F280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Update. There was a little over 7 gallons = left in=20 the tank (out of 15.5 total). I don=92t see how its possible that the = pickup could=20 have sucked air with that much fuel in the tank.
 
The filter was clean. I drained all the fuel = from the=20 tank and there was a couple of tiny pieces of Proseal, but not enough to = plug=20 the pickup. I used compressed air to blow through the pickup then = refilled and=20 drained again. Nothing obvious. So I don=92t have anything conclusive to = blame=20 this on. I'll take David's suggestion and stick a borescope down in the = tank but=20 since its been flushed I don=92t expect to find anything. I havent tried = flying it=20 again. I don=92t want to be the second rotary RV in as many days to end = up on the=20 local news.
 
Mike Wills

Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:02 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel supply = problem?

Enough to get = your=20 heart pumping for sure.  Been there = {:>)

 

Early in my = flying=20 days, I was in a similar type turn and was paying more attention to the=20 buildings I had my wing tip anchored to than I should have been.  = All of a=20 sudden, the engine started unwinding with a vengeance.  I = immediately=20 leveled the air plane, where upon the engine caught again =96 but I was = down to=20 the last gallon or less =96 switched tanks and all was OK.  I = suspected that=20 perhaps my =93coordinated=94 turn was not as coordinated as I had=20 thought.

 

Both of my = pumps can=20 suck fuel from either tank, so can=92t help you there.  I = personally do not=20 favor the one tank- one pump approach due to the fact if you did lose a = pump =96=20 you could possibly lose access to a lot (perhaps a tank) of fuel.  = No=20 problem flying locally perhaps, but a different story if between the = west coast=20 and New = Mexico=20 {:>).  But, I realize there are advantages such as not needing a = valve=20 to switch tanks, but similar to having two CPUs for the fuel injectors = either=20 one of which can run the full set of injectors, I prefer both pumps = having=20 access to both tanks.

 

Also, just = for the heck=20 of it you might check the tank for water.  I flew into Shady Bend = one time=20 with my left tank dry.  Sat out through a few rain shows, took off = the next=20 day and landed at Waycross,=20 GA and filled the left = tank and=20 topped of the right one.  About 30 minutes out, I decided to switch = to the=20 left tank, within seconds of switching the engine started surging.  = Having=20 learned my lesson about switching tanks on my 12 mile glide a few years = ago, I=20 immediately switched back to the other tank and thankfully, everything = returned=20 to normal.  I flew a bit further and go over a suitable air field = and=20 switched back to the left tank, again the surging =96 but I left it on = this time=20 an in about 20-30 seconds the surge disappeared. I thought I might have = picked=20 up some bad fuel =96 but not the case.

 

Yep, you got = it =96=20 should have drain the tanks for water, which I failed to do that = morning. =20 I can=92t prove it was water, but I did discover my left tank cap was = not sealing=20 as it should and I suspect the empty tank accumulated a cup or less of=20 water.  It settled to the bottom by the time I had flow 30 minutes = and when=20 I switched over all I got for the first 30 seconds or so was watery fuel = which=20 the engine did not like.

 

So be careful = =96=20 Mike.  But, then that is what this test phase is all about =96 find = out what=20 might bite you while you are close to home.

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW=20 Rotary Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:49 = PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] fuel supply=20 problem?

 

Was out boring holes in = the sky=20 today trying to accumulate hours - finally a day off with no rain. About = 2 hours=20 into the flight, running on the left tank, and making a gentle left turn = (maybe=20 20 - 30 degrees of bank), and the engine lost power. About 2 seconds = later the=20 engine monitor alarmed that the fuel pressure was below limits. By the = time the=20 alarm sounded I had already switched tanks and power was coming back up. = My=20 airplane is set up with 1 pump for each tank, so switching tanks = actually means=20 switching pumps too.

 

Needless to say I = returned home=20 immediately on the right tank and the airplane ran OK all the way back. = Once on=20 the ground I did a full power runup switching tanks repeatedly and = everything=20 was fine. I'm not certain how much fuel is in the left tank, I'm = guessing about=20 5 gallons. I'll find out tomorrow when I top off the tanks.=20

 

The only thing I can = guess is=20 maybe the fuel in the tank drained away from the pickup in the turn? The = turn=20 was coordinated so in theory the pickup should have remained submerged. = I might=20 have to re-think the fuel system.

 

Mike=20 Wills



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 = Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714)=20 __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 = Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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