X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from EXHUB003-4.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.111] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTPS id 3817375 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:40:36 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.5.74.111; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from EXVMBX003-5.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.45]) by EXHUB003-4.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.111]) with mapi; Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:40:02 -0700 From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:39:59 -0700 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Swirl pots/box fans Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Swirl pots/box fans Thread-Index: AcogOaTe2VTSXy97TEmcYuXBd6bwAAACZl5Q Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0140E9BEE8ACEXVMBX0035e_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_004_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0140E9BEE8ACEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0140E9BEE8ACEXVMBX0035e_" --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0140E9BEE8ACEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But Ed, does it mathematically show that you now want to install a restrict= or plate? Or are you sticking to this original statement?: The entire ideal is to tra= nsfer heat from engine to air. Holding the coolant longer in the block (vi= a a flow restrictor) will indeed increase the temperature and therefore the= heat content of the coolant. However, my view is the ideal is NOT to hold= the heat in the block but to promote its rapid exit from the block to the = radiator. Jeff From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:23 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Swirl pots/box fans Here is a formula for a centrifugal pump that clearly? Shows that Tracy and= Lynn are correct Energy Usage The energy usage in a pumping installation is determined by the flow requir= ed, the height lifted and the length and characteristics of the pipeline. T= he power required to drive a pump (Pi), is defined simply using SI units by= : by: [cid:image001.gif@01CA2022.28731CD0] where: Pi is the input power required (W) =F1 is the fluid density (kg/m3) g is the gravitational constant (9.81 m/s2) H is the energy Head added to the flow (m) Q is the flow rate (m3/s) =E7 is the efficiency of the pump plant as a decimal One can see that if Q the flow rate becomes zero (by blocking the exit) the= n the power required to drive the pump Pi also becomes zero. So block the = pump and lower the flow and the power required drops - or with the same pow= er, the pump can spin faster. There is always some flow around the vanes o= f a centrifugal pump in reality, so the power does not cause the pump to sp= in to infinity rpm but it equalizes at a higher rpm than when considerable = (unblocked) flow is the condition. Is this fun or what? Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Lynn Hanover Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:55 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Swirl pots/box fans NO! I meant exactly what I wrote. It is admittedly counter-intuitive but = true none the less. Did you attempt to prove it to yourself with the sugge= sted test? Only takes a few seconds :>) Tracy On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Jeff Luckey > wrote: Tracy, When a box fan falls over onto its suction side, it revs up as the work it = is performing drops off to near zero.....................same idea. Lynn E. Hanover __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0140E9BEE8ACEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

But Ed, does it mathematically show that you now want to ins= tall a restrictor plate?

Or are you sticking to this original statement?: The = entire ideal is to transfer heat from engine to air.  Holding the coolant lon= ger in the block (via a flow restrictor) will indeed increase the temperature a= nd therefore the heat content of the coolant.  However, my view is the id= eal is NOT to hold the heat in the block but to promote its rapid exit from the block to the radiator. 

Jeff

 

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anders= on
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:23 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Swirl pots/box fans

 

Here is a formula for a centrifugal pump that clearly? Shows th= at Tracy and Lynn are correct

 

Energy Usage

The energy usage in a pumping installation is determined= by the flow required, the height lifted and the length and characteristics of = the pipeline. The power required to drive a pump (Pi), is defined simply using SI units by: by:

3D"P_i=3D

where:

<= span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:15.0pt'>Pi is the input power required (W)

=F1 is the fluid d= ensity (kg/m3)

<= span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:15.0pt'>g is= the gravitational constant (9.81 m/s2)

<= span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:15.0pt'>H is= the energy Head added to the flow (m)

<= span lang=3DEN style=3D'font-size:15.0pt'>Q is= the flow rate (m3/s)

=E7 is the efficie= ncy of the pump plant as a decimal

 

One can see that if Q the flow rate becomes zero (by blocking t= he exit) then the power required to drive the pump Pi also becomes zero. = So block the pump and lower the flow and the power required drops – or w= ith the same power, the pump can spin faster.  There is always some flow around the vanes of a centrifugal pump in reality, so the power does not ca= use the pump to spin to infinity rpm but it equalizes at a higher rpm than when considerable (unblocked) flow is the condition.

 

Is this fun or what?

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Hano= ver
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:55 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Swirl pots/box fans

 

NO!  I meant exact= ly what I wrote.  It is admittedly counter-intuitive but true none the less.&n= bsp; Did you attempt to prove it to yourself with the suggested test?  = ; Only takes a few seconds :>)

Tracy

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Jeff Luckey <JL= uckey@pacbell.net> wrote:

Tracy,

 

When a box fan falls over onto its suction side, it re= vs up as the work it is performing drops off to near zero.....................sam= e idea.

 

Lynn E. Hanover



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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