X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.202] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with SMTP id 3817323 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:08:58 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.198.202; envelope-from=JLuckey@pacbell.net Received: (qmail 84579 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2009 20:08:24 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE; b=CTKNP4UDiosG8jhSswULVx3yogyDHWR9EbWdX1PPuyMf6YSprsdFLSwZqtN5OXA1/tmubRuM/GsC5qYXgaJTRJQKPd0X7iZaIOEPAjFJu8aj+AHlwaQQRuEQrGBMKTbWLkMyPrB58VcaQRzeQavINRIOZ6rvg3crylKfrlBSCjU= ; Received: from unknown (HELO dcshq1) (JLuckey@99.154.129.148 with login) by smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 2009 20:08:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: olyVUhwVM1nnjigfmV59b.SS9pIfIsMfzc42dMVISV4cqsh4HZ7NtiD363hAV9j6976hFiITiMHBmN2RyYOp5MQBskbfjEizIO20TfStpAXL.SM8oX8RGDmqAqeP39f2I2GWwWR_lIAdU8A_6ng7aCo8RpTJc9qBuuy4Su7eIqLXMJeWJx28JrHviud4mj.yfvnKuiQLGRUjP4qUlypWPTbbv2dU51QK_ahCYcTpqrcoH1fFNk6RDhOsyYv6CWKm_km_iP6eA71tYrrRRyIfTxhh9tJKUt4Y6Hjy8mLZFdwinPZzsRuY0bMKJur4vOt9R73ifl5dVdV5zvmnm3QGBz39QOYPADt_1jQuHlaPIcqjil4- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Jeff Luckey" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Swirl pots/box fans Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:08:17 -0700 Message-ID: <009301ca203f$a0955490$6701a8c0@dcshq1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0094_01CA2004.F4367C90" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcogOY6IiU9t5cVIQU6mHeR39jWGigABPZ6A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0094_01CA2004.F4367C90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0095_01CA2004.F4367C90" ------=_NextPart_001_0095_01CA2004.F4367C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Now look what I've done! I've incited a techno-riot!=20 =20 Don't make me get the fire hoses & tear gas =20 I'm still laughing at the responses (which I suddenly realize, = classifies me as a MAJOR GEEK ( but I already knew that :)) =20 =20 And Ed, anyone who can come-up with flow formulas w/ greek symbols and = embed them into an email at will - is OK in my book =20 This forum is great! =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 12:23 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Swirl pots/box fans =20 Here is a formula for a centrifugal pump that clearly? Shows that Tracy = and Lynn are correct =20 Energy Usage The energy usage in a pumping installation is determined by the flow required, the height lifted and the length and characteristics of the pipeline. The power required to drive a pump (Pi), is defined simply = using SI units by: by: P_i=3D \cfrac{\rho\ g\ H\ Q}{\eta} where: Pi is the input power required (W)=20 =F1 is the fluid density (kg/m3)=20 g is the gravitational constant (9.81 m/s2)=20 H is the energy Head added to the flow (m)=20 Q is the flow rate (m3/s)=20 =E7 is the efficiency of the pump plant as a decimal=20 =20 One can see that if Q the flow rate becomes zero (by blocking the exit) = then the power required to drive the pump Pi also becomes zero. So block the pump and lower the flow and the power required drops - or with the same power, the pump can spin faster. There is always some flow around the = vanes of a centrifugal pump in reality, so the power does not cause the pump = to spin to infinity rpm but it equalizes at a higher rpm than when = considerable (unblocked) flow is the condition. =20 Is this fun or what? Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Hanover Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:55 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Swirl pots/box fans =20 NO! I meant exactly what I wrote. It is admittedly counter-intuitive = but true none the less. Did you attempt to prove it to yourself with the suggested test? Only takes a few seconds :>) Tracy On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Jeff Luckey = wrote: Tracy, =20 When a box fan falls over onto its suction side, it revs up as the work = it is performing drops off to near zero.....................same idea. =20 Lynn E. Hanover __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_001_0095_01CA2004.F4367C90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Now look what I’ve done!=A0 = I’ve incited a techno-riot!

 

Don’t make me get the fire = hoses & tear gas

 

I’m still laughing at the = responses (which I suddenly realize, classifies me as a MAJOR GEEK ( but I already = knew that :))

 

 

And Ed, anyone who can come-up with = flow formulas w/ greek symbols and embed them into an email at will – is OK in = my book

 

This forum is = great!

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, = 2009 12:23
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Swirl pots/box fans

 

Here is a formula for a centrifugal = pump that clearly? Shows that Tracy and Lynn are = correct

 

Energy = Usage

The energy usage in a pumping installation is determined by the flow = required, the height lifted and the length and characteristics of the pipeline. The = power required to drive a pump (Pi<= /i>), is defined simply using SI units by: = by:

3D"P_i=3D

where:

Pi is the = input power required (W)

=F1 is the fluid density (kg/m3) =

g is the gravitational = constant (9.81 m/s2)

H is the energy Head = added to the flow (m)

Q is the flow rate = (m3/s)

=E7 is the efficiency of the pump plant as a decimal =

 

One can see that if Q the flow rate becomes zero (by blocking the exit) then the power required to drive the = pump Pi also becomes zero.  So block the pump and lower the flow and the = power required drops – or with the same power, the pump can spin = faster.  There is always some flow around the vanes of a centrifugal pump in = reality, so the power does not cause the pump to spin to infinity rpm but it = equalizes at a higher rpm than when considerable (unblocked) flow is the = condition.

 

Is this fun or = what?

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Hanover
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, = 2009 2:55 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Swirl pots/box fans

 

NO!  I = meant exactly what I wrote.  It is admittedly counter-intuitive but true none the less.  Did you attempt to prove it to yourself with the suggested test?   Only takes a few seconds :>)

Tracy

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Jeff Luckey <JLuckey@pacbell.net> wrote:

Tracy,

 

When a box fan falls over onto its suction side, it revs up as = the work it is performing drops off to near zero.....................same = idea.

 

Lynn E. Hanover



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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