X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bw0-f226.google.com ([209.85.218.226] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3732402 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:24:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.226; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by bwz26 with SMTP id 26so1599215bwz.19 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:24:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Z83sXZSZyjeRVJSf8IK46CqQcR6IMknx2cr8B9hFSo0=; b=VAXuAeRsLEXf1IH5/doJZvx7rcSzi2/SuCnn0O2YBGCEgmdp1DIlbiQVnCOVAIP0Si etAfwa2VJLL1TGi7UzDokcXQkjMzLdSuUCRxUFflK0AlyVR0oZAtITvcE7Rxo4ZHetHk 2VAQpz+PpkKDXcO6+zRqaQ6ho+yeVpMxImzlE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=RoMMXQ80X59QZXoeSFEcgnE5DsmflQYLXWTI0ZR6AI/hVu2EvjmwgBXlUX0i7LdPIv giHsN5F0qsb6tZsh7L47COl1SmVPrChayA9yjOGY7mchwUEVXIgFmppPiMxV2ANuY7V8 uyNbQHzzk1SY6BMr1Yjkwvfi/aD1cqzt3KBzc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.54.198 with SMTP id r6mr2507932bkg.191.1245939856475; Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:24:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:24:16 -0500 Message-ID: <5cf132c0906250724m5cd9b5ferf6601fe0e2048e6e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Auto Tune vice Max Power???: [FlyRotary] Re: Consistant progress...not sure how to act? From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5ba598e871e046d2cfa94 --001636c5ba598e871e046d2cfa94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, Yes, Auto Tune does work on the ground for most, but not all, map table addresses. There are certain map table addresses that you just can't get t= o unless you're actually flying the airplane. Those are the ones that the EC-2 needs for flying in the pattern and approach modes. You need to go to a safe altitude and simulate a landing, while in auto tune. Mark On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Ed Anderson wro= te: > You are correct, Mark. If did preface my observation with =93*IF your f= uel > flow is calibrated and accurate*..=94 {:>). Which could be a big > assumption. > > > > However, not being familiar with the Auto Tune feature, I have no idea > what is required to calibrate the fuel flow or whether you can do it on t= he > ground or not. However, Chris did indicate he was attempting to use the > =93Auto Tune=94 feature =96 which I believe is for tuning for *cruise* no= t *best > power. *IF that assumption is correct then it begs the question of > whether it affects full power WOT operation or is automatically cut out o= f > the fuel control loop under that condition. > > > > I just thought the suggestion to turn it off or temporary disable the Aut= o > tune might be an easy thing to check to see if it affected the RPM and fu= el > flow. > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > http://www.andersonee.com > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Mark Steitle > *Sent:* Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:09 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Auto Tune vice Max Power???: [FlyRotary] Re: > Consistant progress...not sure how to act? > > > > ED, > > > > Isn't that a pretty big assumption to expect the fuel flow to be calibrat= ed > and accurate considering that he hasn't yet flown and just switched to > larger injectors? I've been flying for two years and I'm not done > tweaking the fuel flow calibration on my EM-2. If that is in fact the ca= se, > isn't everything else a moot point? > > > > Mark S. > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 6:24 AM, Ed Anderson > wrote: > > Chris, > > IF your fuel flow is calibrated and accurate a fuel flow of 11 gph at 587= 0 > rpm and 29" Hg, that would indicate an air/fuel ratio of around 16:1. No= w, > I am not familiar with Tracy's auto tune function (no EM2), so don't know > if > it's trying to achieve a 14.7:1 Stoichiometric ratio or not - but, my > calculations indicates your engine may have been running a bit lean for > best > power. > > For best power you want an air/fuel ratio of around 12.65:1. If you have > that A/F ratio then your 5870 rpm at WOT and 29"Hg would give you around > 155 > HP with a fuel flow of around 14.4 gph. > > I don't know if you can, but IF you can, I would turn off/disable the aut= o > tune feature and try just manually adjusting your fuel mixture knob to gi= ve > you a richer A/F and see what that gives you. I could be wrong, but my > understanding is that the auto tune is more for tuning for economy rather > than max power. > > Ed > > > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > http://www.andersonee.com > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Christopher Barber > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:43 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Consistant progress...not sure how to act? > > I went out tonight and checked for leaks and could not find any, but you > are right, it is likely idling too high. I will likely remove the > suspect part of the manifold and give it a more diligent inspection. > The Mistral intake is two major parts. The part that is bolted onto the > engine has nothing that could leak. It is connected to the throttle > body portion by aluminum tubes. The throttle body portion has a couple > of places that could leak. That being said, I was intense in my method > to seal the the openings that Mistral provided to attached various hoses > that I am not using. However, I will verify. > > I did verify that the throttle is closing all the way, so I got some > more investigating to do. > > In a similar note and perhaps this should be more directed at Tracy but > how does the EM2 determine Horsepower and Percent of power. Tonight > when I cranked the power to full at about 5870 rpm's I was looking at a > fuel flow of about 11 gph (which if I read previous post correctly is > low) and a HP of about 93 which indicated 50% power. Now, I was at FULL > power, but is was indicating 93 HP and 50% power. Whats up with that? > OH OH OH, the MP was showing 29. (for once I remembered to look ) > > I did learn something tonight. If I forget to turn on the fan while > sitting on the ramp at 86 degree Houston night, my temps shoot up much > faster. > > I do think my staging point is either 15 or 15.5 by looking at the > asterisk coming on and off while near idle. I have had my EC2 since > 2005 and even though Tracy has updated it, I think the staging is the sam= e. > > I am still working out EC2 issues. While it is running much, much > better, it still seems to change subtle elements of the MAP table on its > own. I don't know yet if this is due to my attempt at using Auto Tune > mode or not. It seems when I shut it down at night and come back the > next days, minor difference are present. Not sure why it seems to have a > mind of its own. Of course, getting time to focus on the differences is > difficult. I know, I am preaching to the choir, as we all have time > constraints. > > I hope I am actually making progress > > All the best, > > Chris > > Al Gietzen wrote: > > I meant to note the MP but forgot. IIRC the MP was what I considered a > bit > > high at about 15. Since this is where Tracy has the staging point by > design > > (15 or 15.5 I think) I noticed it > > > > Chris; > > > > I see Map of 10 - 11" at idle. By 15 it's putting out some serious > power. > > Either the throttle isn't closing or you have a pretty serious leak. > > > > I think on the more recent versions Tracy has been setting the default > > staging higher, like 16.5 - 17". > > > > Best, > > > > Al > > > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > --001636c5ba598e871e046d2cfa94 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
=A0
Yes, Auto Tune does work on the ground for most, but not all,=A0map ta= ble addresses.=A0=A0There are=A0certain map table addresses that you just c= an't get to unless you're actually flying the airplane.=A0 Those ar= e the ones that=A0the EC-2=A0needs for flying in the pattern and approach m= odes.=A0 You need to go to a=A0safe altitude and simulate a landing, while = in auto tune.
=A0
Mark=A0

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@c= arolina.rr.com> wrote:

with =93IF your fuel flow is calibrated and accurate..=94=A0 {:&g= t;). Which could be a big assumption.

cruise not best power.=A0 IF that assumption is correct then it b= egs the question of whether it affects full power WOT operation or is autom= atically cut out of the fuel control loop under that condition.

=A0

From: Rota= ry motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 20= 09 8:09 AM
To: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Auto Tune vice Max Power???: [FlyRotary] Re: Consistant p= rogress...not sure how to act?

= Mark S.

eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wr= ote:

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.and= ersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/=

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW<= /a>

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:<= a href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net" target=3D"_blank">flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Christopher Barber
Sent: Thursday,= June 25, 2009 4:43 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Consistant progre= ss...not sure how to act?

I went out tonight and checked for leaks a= nd could not find any, but you
are right, it is likely idling too high. = =A0I will likely remove the
suspect part of the manifold and give it a more diligent inspection.
The= Mistral intake is two major parts. =A0The part that is bolted onto the
= engine has nothing that could leak. =A0It is connected to the throttle
b= ody portion by aluminum tubes. =A0The throttle body portion has a couple of places that could leak. =A0That being said, I was intense in my methodto seal the the openings that Mistral provided to attached various hoses<= br>that I am not using. =A0However, I will verify.

I did verify that= the throttle is closing all the way, so I got some
more investigating to do.

In a similar note and perhaps this should = be more directed at Tracy but
how does the EM2 determine Horsepower and = Percent of power. =A0Tonight
when I cranked the power to full at about 5= 870 rpm's I was looking at a
fuel flow of about 11 gph (which if I read previous post correctly is
lo= w) and a HP of about 93 which indicated 50% power. =A0Now, I was at FULLpower, but is was indicating 93 HP and 50% power. =A0Whats up with that? OH OH OH, the MP was showing 29. (for once I remembered to look <g>)<= br>
I did learn something tonight. =A0If I forget to turn on the fan whi= le
sitting on the ramp at 86 degree Houston night, my temps shoot up muc= h
faster.

I do think my staging point is either 15 or 15.5 by looking = at the
asterisk coming on and off while near idle. =A0I have had my EC2 = since
2005 and even though Tracy has updated it, I think the staging is = the same.

I am still working out EC2 issues. =A0While it is running much, muchbetter, it still seems to change subtle elements of the MAP table on itsown. =A0I don't know yet if this is due to my attempt at using Auto T= une
mode or not. =A0It seems when I shut it down at night and come back the
= next days, minor difference are present. Not sure why it seems to have amind of its own. =A0Of course, getting time to focus on the differences is=
difficult. =A0I know, I am preaching to the choir, as we all have time
c= onstraints.

I hope I am actually making progress <g>

Al= l the best,

Chris

Al Gietzen wrote:
> I meant to note t= he MP but forgot. =A0IIRC the MP was what I considered a
bit
> high at about 15. =A0Since this is where Tracy has the staging = point by
design
> (15 or 15.5 I think) I noticed it
>
>= ; Chris;
>
> I see Map of 10 - 11" at idle. =A0By 15 it= 9;s putting out some serious power.
> Either the throttle isn't closing or you have a pretty serious lea= k.
>
> I think on the more recent versions Tracy has been setti= ng =A0the default
> staging higher, like 16.5 - 17".
>
> Best,
>
> Al
>
>
>
> --
> Ho= mepage: =A0http://w= ww.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
http://ma= il.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>

--
Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:
= http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus sign= ature
database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked= by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of vi= rus signature
database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was= checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



--
Ho= mepage: =A0http://w= ww.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.l= ancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html