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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:41:08 -0500
Message-ID: <5cf132c0903230641p7855df2qfe3464395ef599ba@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Problem found
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Chris,

With the luck you've been having, I can't help but wonder if you maybe wrote
a speeding ticket to the Pope or something.  ;-)  I really hope that
Mazdatrix stands behind their parts and sends you a new housing.

Years ago I bought a junkyard 13B engine, mainly for educational
purposes.  Upon disassembly, I quickly spotted the reason for it being in
the junkyard.  It turned out to have a cracked coolant passage, just like
your center housing.  I tried to braze weld it, just to see if I could do
it, and it appeared to work.  I never put the engine back together and ran
it, so I don't know if it would hold up or not.  Don't get the idea that I
would fly with that housing, because I wouldn't think of it.  But as a last
resort, I think it might be worth a try in a street application.

When ordering parts, keep in mind that Bob Mears (Mears Mazda) has offered
us rotary-engine aviators a very generous discount on rotary engine parts.
Bob is building a Marine Spitfire with a 3-rotor.  His parts manager is
Ronnie Kenley (1-800-692-4497).  If you have to bite the bullet and buy
another housing, you may want to call Ronnie.

Thanks,
Mark

2009/3/22 <cbarber@texasattorney.net>

> As y'all may remember, I have had some, uh, "issues" with my rotary.  After
> seemingly toasting my first rebuilt rotary from lack of knowledge and the
> learning curve, I gathered my newly learned skill and bit the bullet and
> bought new end, center and rotor housings from Mazdatrix and built what was
> essentially a new 2nd gen 13b.
>
> I was all excited and got it to start with little problem and had learned a
> great deal about most my systems and was very confidant in the new build.
>  DOH!  After getting everything back together it started to exhibit some of
> the same symptoms of the first engine (I had discovered coolant leaking into
> the rotor housing of the first engine, which had been built from the parts
> of three 2nd gen turbo's we found as a lot on ebay), namely, the engine
> would start up fine at first, but would become very difficult to start after
> the first start of the day.
>
> Since I recognized the symptoms, I reluctantly pulled out a spark plug and
> hand turned the prop and low and behold, coolant squirted out the spark plug
> hole. Damn-it.  I was at a loss, so, I removed the engine from my Velocity
> and took it over to a trusted friend (who is building an RV-7a with a
> Eggenfielder Soob) and engineer to get a second, and as it turned out a
> third opinion on what was going on (my friend had a friend over who is a 30
> year veteran Audie mechanic).  Upon inspection it seemed as if the problem
> was that the coolant ports that feed into the stock intake had not been
> properly sealed.  Eureka, or so we thought, we had solved the problem with
> both the new engine and the old one.  We thought the coolant was coming into
> the rotor housings via the bad seal and the Mistal intake not sealing as
> expected.  What a relief......wrong.
>
> Over the last couple of months, since the engine was off the plane I
> refined many of the firewall aft systems and added both a much bigger
> radiator and oil cooler.  Really got things much more flight ready as
> opposed to "proof of concept".  The old radiator was not up to the task in
> Houston's heat, so I got one on there much closer to the size of John Slade
> as opposed to Tracy's original size, that, IIRC, was marginal at best. It
> was for me anyway.
>
> So, last week I had most my systems installed and got the engine all
> rigged.  I rolled the plane out of the hangar for an attempt to start.  It
> started right up and was even admired by some neighbors, including the
> married NASA rocket scientist next door (great couple) who had just spent
> $60K for a new certified engine for their Lancair Legacy.  I was feeling
> like I was actually making progress.  Alas, I was mistaken.  The engine was
> shut down to allow a plane to pass returning to its hangar.  Upon restart it
> was more difficult.  I let it run a few minutes to check cooling, which
> seems better (coolant doing better than oil).  I then shut it down again and
> restarted, even harder this time....lets try again....even harder.
> Hmmmmmm.  Okay, I have seen this, no reason to wait.  Let me pull the plug.
>  Yep, as I hand propped the engine, I got coolant squirting out the lower
> rear spark plug hole.
>
> I have lost some of my patience, so I stripped most everything off the
> engine over the last few days.  Today I mounted the engine on the stand and
> cracked it open.  Everything looked fine, UNTIL I got to the
> intermediate/center plate.  There was a piece of the center iron inner water
> seal O-ring wall that was missing!!! (see attached photo) This is a brand
> new housing purchased and ported by Mazdatrix last summer.....brand new.  On
> one hand I am horrified at my new plate failing after only about an hour of
> running.  On the other hand I am happy that I did not screw up the build.
>  There is no way I can grasp that I made this happen, thus my build was
> solid.  A part that does not usually fail, failed.  Now, I wonder what
> Mazdatrix's return policy is.....will it be covered under warranty?  It is a
> $500.00 piece purchased in the last year (kinda long, but I admittedly do
> not have the luxury of testing every day and it only has about 1-2 hours
> total time on it) that should not have failed.  I will call them tomorrow,
> but regret I do not have much faith in them accepting responsibility.  That
> being said, I know it was not anything I did.  I will likely purchase
> another plate, send them my damaged one and hope for the best...I want to
> move on.  I am sick and tired of messing with it....I feel like I have been
> going in circles....so, so close, but so far.  I think I would have been
> flying if it were not for this issue....however, it has allowed me to make
> my systems much better during the experience.
>
> Please check out the picture and ad any thoughts you may have.
>
> Thanks.
>
> All the best,
>
> Chris Barber
> Houston
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>

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<div>Chris, </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>With the luck you&#39;ve been having, I can&#39;t help but wonder if y=
ou maybe wrote a speeding ticket to the Pope or something.=A0 ;-)=A0 I real=
ly hope that Mazdatrix stands behind their parts and sends you a new housin=
g.=A0 </div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Years ago I bought a junkyard 13B engine, mainly for educational purpo=
ses.=A0=A0Upon disassembly,=A0I quickly spotted the reason for it being in =
the junkyard.=A0 It=A0turned out to have a cracked coolant passage, just li=
ke your center housing.=A0 I tried to braze weld it, just to see if I could=
 do it,=A0and it appeared to work.=A0 I never put the engine back together =
and ran it, so I don&#39;t know if it would hold up or not.=A0 Don&#39;t ge=
t the idea that I would=A0fly with that housing, because I wouldn&#39;t thi=
nk of it.=A0 But as a last resort,=A0I think it might be worth a try in a s=
treet application.=A0 </div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>When ordering parts, keep in mind that Bob Mears (Mears Mazda) has off=
ered us rotary-engine aviators=A0a very generous discount on rotary engine=
=A0parts.=A0 Bob is building a Marine Spitfire with a 3-rotor.=A0 His parts=
 manager is Ronnie Kenley (1-800-692-4497).=A0 If you have to bite the bull=
et and buy another housing,=A0you may want to=A0call Ronnie.=A0=A0</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Mark=A0 <br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/3/22 <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:cbarber@texasattorney.net">cbarber@texasattorney.net</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">As y&#39;all may remember, I hav=
e had some, uh, &quot;issues&quot; with my rotary. =A0After seemingly toast=
ing my first rebuilt rotary from lack of knowledge and the learning curve, =
I gathered my newly learned skill and bit the bullet and bought new end, ce=
nter and rotor housings from Mazdatrix and built what was essentially a new=
 2nd gen 13b.<br>
<br>I was all excited and got it to start with little problem and had learn=
ed a great deal about most my systems and was very confidant in the new bui=
ld. =A0DOH! =A0After getting everything back together it started to exhibit=
 some of the same symptoms of the first engine (I had discovered coolant le=
aking into the rotor housing of the first engine, which had been built from=
 the parts of three 2nd gen turbo&#39;s we found as a lot on ebay), namely,=
 the engine would start up fine at first, but would become very difficult t=
o start after the first start of the day.<br>
<br>Since I recognized the symptoms, I reluctantly pulled out a spark plug =
and hand turned the prop and low and behold, coolant squirted out the spark=
 plug hole. Damn-it. =A0I was at a loss, so, I removed the engine from my V=
elocity and took it over to a trusted friend (who is building an RV-7a with=
 a Eggenfielder Soob) and engineer to get a second, and as it turned out a =
third opinion on what was going on (my friend had a friend over who is a 30=
 year veteran Audie mechanic). =A0Upon inspection it seemed as if the probl=
em was that the coolant ports that feed into the stock intake had not been =
properly sealed. =A0Eureka, or so we thought, we had solved the problem wit=
h both the new engine and the old one. =A0We thought the coolant was coming=
 into the rotor housings via the bad seal and the Mistal intake not sealing=
 as expected. =A0What a relief......wrong.<br>
<br>Over the last couple of months, since the engine was off the plane I re=
fined many of the firewall aft systems and added both a much bigger radiato=
r and oil cooler. =A0Really got things much more flight ready as opposed to=
 &quot;proof of concept&quot;. =A0The old radiator was not up to the task i=
n Houston&#39;s heat, so I got one on there much closer to the size of John=
 Slade as opposed to Tracy&#39;s original size, that, IIRC, was marginal at=
 best. It was for me anyway.<br>
<br>So, last week I had most my systems installed and got the engine all ri=
gged. =A0I rolled the plane out of the hangar for an attempt to start. =A0I=
t started right up and was even admired by some neighbors, including the ma=
rried NASA rocket scientist next door (great couple) who had just spent $60=
K for a new certified engine for their Lancair Legacy. =A0I was feeling lik=
e I was actually making progress. =A0Alas, I was mistaken. =A0The engine wa=
s shut down to allow a plane to pass returning to its hangar. =A0Upon resta=
rt it was more difficult. =A0I let it run a few minutes to check cooling, w=
hich seems better (coolant doing better than oil). =A0I then shut it down a=
gain and restarted, even harder this time....lets try again....even harder.=
 =A0 Hmmmmmm. =A0Okay, I have seen this, no reason to wait. =A0Let me pull =
the plug. =A0Yep, as I hand propped the engine, I got coolant squirting out=
 the lower rear spark plug hole.<br>
<br>I have lost some of my patience, so I stripped most everything off the =
engine over the last few days. =A0Today I mounted the engine on the stand a=
nd cracked it open. =A0Everything looked fine, UNTIL I got to the intermedi=
ate/center plate. =A0There was a piece of the center iron inner water seal =
O-ring wall that was missing!!! (see attached photo) This is a brand new ho=
using purchased and ported by Mazdatrix last summer.....brand new. =A0On on=
e hand I am horrified at my new plate failing after only about an hour of r=
unning. =A0On the other hand I am happy that I did not screw up the build. =
=A0There is no way I can grasp that I made this happen, thus my build was s=
olid. =A0A part that does not usually fail, failed. =A0Now, I wonder what M=
azdatrix&#39;s return policy is.....will it be covered under warranty? =A0I=
t is a $500.00 piece purchased in the last year (kinda long, but I admitted=
ly do not have the luxury of testing every day and it only has about 1-2 ho=
urs total time on it) that should not have failed. =A0I will call them tomo=
rrow, but regret I do not have much faith in them accepting responsibility.=
 =A0That being said, I know it was not anything I did. =A0I will likely pur=
chase another plate, send them my damaged one and hope for the best...I wan=
t to move on. =A0I am sick and tired of messing with it....I feel like I ha=
ve been going in circles....so, so close, but so far. =A0I think I would ha=
ve been flying if it were not for this issue....however, it has allowed me =
to make my systems much better during the experience.<br>
<br>Please check out the picture and ad any thoughts you may have.<br><br>T=
hanks.<br><br>All the best,<br><br>Chris Barber<br>Houston<br><br>--<br>Hom=
epage: =A0<a href=3D"http://www.flyrotary.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
w.flyrotary.com/</a><br>
Archive and UnSub: =A0 <a href=3D"http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/fl=
yrotary/List.html" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists=
/flyrotary/List.html</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br>

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