From: Greg Ward <gregw@onestopdesign.biz>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 2:42 PM
Hey Paul; Appreciate the info.
The FIRST consideration was the redrive, and after a lot of
conversations with Tracy, Craig Catto, and Bob Wirth, we
came to the conclusion that 450+ hp at take-off was o.k.,
then pull it back to 55-75% for cruise.  That plywood
firewall is a little undersized, and we have been fitting as
we go along.  But at this point, a couple more bubbles one
way or the other, oh well.  Guaranteed, it ain't going
to look like a stock Legacy......(:-)
Greg Ward
Lancair 20B N178RG in progress

----- Original Message ----- From:
<fpbjr2001@yahoo.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:10 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B
numbers


> greg
>  i do not know what you want but here goes.
>  the idea with the engine was to have the most hp with
the least amount of boost so the the turbo would not work
very much so it will last longer. i feel it will fail first
in the system. the engine is street ported and the turbo is
a to4 (.96 cold side) with 3 lb. spring so the engine should
turbo normalize at 300-330 hp. i have a bypass regulator so
i can adjust boost pressure up to higher levels. if i get
this checked out i'm going to add a pop off at 8-10 lbs
so i can't over boost the system.
>  i don't know if you have thought but the limiting
factor is the gearbox. tracy says 300 hp continuous. these
numbers are Conservative. but i feel we are in territory
that has not been tested very much.
> beautiful work on your engine. i have one question.
are you sure your intake is low enough to clear the cowlng.
i had to redo the intake 3 times to get it low enough to
clear my cowling. beautiful work!
> >                 paul brannon    N117ES
> > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Greg Ward
<gregw@onestopdesign.biz> wrote:
> >> From: Greg Ward <gregw@onestopdesign.biz>
>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ
Run / 20B numbers
>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>> Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 8:35 PM
>> Hi Paul;
>> I would be real interested in what you've been
doing,
>> as it sounds close to
>> what we are trying to accomplish.  Any info would
be
>> appreciated, and as we
>> finally get on the dyno, we will do the same.
>> Greg Ward
>> Lancair 20B in progress
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed
Anderson"
>> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
>> <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 2:43 PM
>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ
Run / 20B
>> numbers
>> >> >> > Hi Paul,
>> >
>> > Good to hear from you.  Thanks for the real
figures on
>> your turbo 3 rotor,
>> > couldn't remember them offhand.
>> >
>> > I hope the "may fly yet" means it
stays in
>> the family?  Or do you simply
>> > have a good home for it?
>> >
>> > Ed
>> >
>> > Ed Anderson
>> >
>> > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>> >
>> > Matthews, NC
>> >
>> > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>> >
>> > http://www.andersonee.com
>> >
>> > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>> >
>> > http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> >
>> >
>>
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
>> > Behalf Of fpbjr2001@yahoo.com
>> > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:31 PM
>> > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's
BBQ Run /
>> 20B numbers
>> >
>> > ed
>> >  dyno reading of 580hp with 10 lbs boost and
386 ft/lb
>> torque at 5500 rpm.
>> >  not sold yet. and may fly yet.
>> >                paul brannon    N117ES
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson
>> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Ed Anderson
>> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was :
Mark's BBQ
>> Run / 20B numbers
>> >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
>> <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>> >> Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:10 PM
>> >> Should be a fire belching dragon of an
engine at
>> over 15psi,
>> >> Greg.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>  15 Psi boost would be roughly 60"
Hg of
>> boost which
>> >> at an A/F ratio of 12
>> >> (assume you would run it a bit rich at
those boost
>> levels)
>> >> would give at
>> >> 6000 rpm approx 550 HP burning 51 gph
(more power
>> at high
>> >> rpm and boost
>> >> naturally)  and producing a total of 25000
>> BTU/Min of heat
>> >> to be dumped
>> >> through the radiator and oil cooler. Boy, you
>> will produce
>> >> more heat energy
>> >> that gets dumped through your oil cooler
(8484
>> BTU/Min)
>> >> than my total
>> >> (coolant and oil heat) entire engine puts
out.
>> Hope you
>> >> have big radiators
>> >> and oil cooler {:>).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> A couple of guys in South Carolina had a
turbo 3
>> rotor that
>> >> they stated
>> >> produced over 500 HP on the dyno.  It
flew, but
>> >> unfortunately only one
>> >> flight, before one of the partners
decided they
>> were not
>> >> true experimenters
>> >> and they decided to sell the project.  It
was
>> really a nice
>> >> looking set up
>> >> on a Lancair ES.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ed
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ed Anderson
>> >>
>> >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>> >>
>> >> Matthews, NC
>> >>
>> >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>> >>
>> >>  <http://www.andersonee.com>
>> >> http://www.andersonee.com
>> >>
>> >> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
>> >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>> >>
>> >> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> >>
>> >>
>>
<http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
>> >>
>>
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>> >>
>> >> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
>> >>
>> >>   _____
>> >>
>> >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> >> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
>> >> Behalf Of Greg Ward
>> >> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:53 AM
>> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was :
Mark's BBQ
>> Run / 20B
>> >> numbers
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hey Ed;
>> >>
>> >> We are running a 4088 Garrett hair dryer,
starting
>> at about
>> >> 15# of boost,
>> >> and are extensively flow testing both the
exhaust
>> and
>> >> induction for best
>> >> efficiency/output.  That's why the
pictures,
>> show
>> >> everything a little bit
>> >> different from what everyone else has
done.
>> Trying for
>> >> optimum runner
>> >> length, as little back pressure as
possible, early
>> heat
>> >> removal, etc.
>> >> Haven't got any real numbers down
yet, until
>> we
>> >> (finally) get on the dyno
>> >> but based on what a stock 360hp Cosmo
gets for
>> mileage, and
>> >> going from
>> >> there, we are convinced that fuel flows
should be
>> pretty
>> >> good.  That's why
>> >> they call it
"experimental".....(:-)
>> >>
>> >> Greg
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>
>> >> From: Ed
<mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>> Anderson
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> To: Rotary
>> <mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>> >> motors in aircraft
>> >>
>> >> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:42 AM
>> >>
>> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] HP was : Mark's
BBQ Run /
>> 20B
>> >> numbers
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi Greg, well, if the fuel burn figure
reported
>> was correct
>> >> - then the HP
>> >> figures I calculated are in the ball
park.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> We know the 3 rotor is capable of
producing
>> considerably
>> >> more power at sea
>> >> level (per Al's dyno run with his 3
rotor)
>> with the
>> >> higher air density.
>> >> However, at altitude the upper limit
would
>> naturally be
>> >> less due to the less
>> >> dense air to support combustion, unless
you are
>> running
>> >> some sort of forced
>> >> induction as in a turbo, supercharger or
perhaps
>> nitrous
>> >> oxide chemical
>> >> enhancement.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>  But if the fuel burn was 15 gph, then it
does not
>> matter
>> >> whether it was a 2
>> >> rotor, 3 rotor or 1 rotor (a 1 rotor
would really
>> have to
>> >> be screaming to
>> >> burn at that rate {:>)),  the approx
HP
>> equation is:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> HP = (Gallon/Hour) *( 6 lb
gasoline/gallon ) /BSFC
>> =
>> >> 15*6/0.55 = 90/0.55 =
>> >> 163 HP.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Now if you choose a different BSFC such
as 0.49
>> then you
>> >> get a better
>> >> conversion.  But, I tend to be
conservative in my
>> >> estimates.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Best Regards
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ed
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ed Anderson
>> >>
>> >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>> >>
>> >> Matthews, NC
>> >>
>> >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>> >>
>> >>  <http://www.andersonee.com>
>> >> http://www.andersonee.com
>> >>
>> >> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
>> >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>> >>
>> >> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> >>
>> >>
>>
<http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
>> >>
>>
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>> >>
>> >> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>   _____
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> >> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
>> >> Behalf Of Greg Ward
>> >> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:20 AM
>> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ
Run / 20B
>> numbers
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Agree to that. Our projections on the
turbo 20B
>> are much
>> >> higher than that.
>> >>
>> >> Greg
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>
>> >> From: Al Gietzen
<mailto:ALVentures@cox.net>
>> >>
>> >> To: Rotary
>> <mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>> >> motors in aircraft
>> >>
>> >> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:13 PM
>> >>
>> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ
Run / 20B
>> numbers
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ed;
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Seems like your numbers are about 100 hp
- or
>> maybe one
>> >> rotor - too low.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Al G
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> >> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
>> >> Behalf Of Ed Anderson
>> >> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:34 PM
>> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ
Run / 20B
>> numbers
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Doug, at 15 gph at 6000 rpm, Mark would
be making
>> approx
>> >> 165 HP, perhaps a
>> >> bit more, using a very conservative  BSFC
of 0.55.
>>  If you
>> >> assume a bit
>> >> better BSFC of 0.49 it would be around
183 HP.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ed
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ed Anderson
>> >>
>> >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>> >>
>> >> Matthews, NC
>> >>
>> >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>> >>
>> >>  <http://www.andersonee.com>
>> >> http://www.andersonee.com
>> >>
>> >> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
>> >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>> >>
>> >> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> >>
>> >>
>>
<http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
>> >>
>>
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>> >>
>> >> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>   _____
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> >> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
>> >> Behalf Of DLOMHEIM@aol.com
>> >> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:38 PM
>> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Mark's BBQ Run /
20B
>> numbers
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Mark:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Great story...thanks for posting it!  At
6,000 rpm
>> and 15
>> >> gph, how many HP
>> >> do you think you're developing?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Also, have you by chance flown side by
side with
>> another
>> >> Lycoming powered ES
>> >> for comparison purposes?  If so what did
you
>> learn?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> We're going to have a couple of
"burger
>> >> burns" at our airport ((2OK2) just
>> >> east of Tinker AFB) this Spring / Summer,
so maybe
>> >> you'll feel like going on
>> >> a short cross country up this way and
show our
>> little EAA
>> >> chapter what a
>> >> three rotor looks and sounds like?!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Blue Skies
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Doug
>> >>
>> >> RV-9A, 13B
>> >>
>> >> Organizing the hanger for Spring FWF and
canopy
>> work!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>   _____
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See
>> >>
>> >
>>
<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=htt
>> >>
>> >
>>
p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=Dec
>> >> emailfooterNO62>  yours in just 2 easy
steps!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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