X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.243] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2793102 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:31:52 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.132.243; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b2so969269ana.81 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:31:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=inTp9+vEmqdUOYs654iGBVHWhqJOgkuTkVjGToHLrVQ=; b=UNrlM2EUdTzwHY6rcEZ882SCWtB8NbKlUxzXoDPt72hrtMiYhf5s4IJ3jQfK6iv2PyFxpJscTRKCfY2Sy5FlRwVZr0wnea4v5XhgVKRyGN2VRK0yNVAmd7INiE2vkUTLk8/Jd5TGRT/CbWvLSVu9s/e2Bj7+XOp5P60JRBZpAh4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=PxXxJfryLxL6QJcwlnx1NLRh2edhKrqHWz+0t6m8eApukE0Z6BmU0+FN1kvYNVSXtiO0J28Ggy3TjpcgjrditihFQ7aYGI/81UwXi7Su7Gr7K27uWrOCHcZHlL6VoVxO0BBs6BwKgheBj0s8wYXBTBEU2xBEeZjFbwrsQ/N3KHM= Received: by 10.100.251.5 with SMTP id y5mr26493663anh.118.1205598669934; Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.133.10 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0803150931j111d9769i1f95153d24d55378@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:31:09 -0400 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil temps, O-rings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2732_8955282.1205598669916" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9ccc19131ff3d9ff ------=_Part_2732_8955282.1205598669916 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline For another data point, I had coolant temps above 256 degrees when I lost coolant due to a malfunctioning radiator cap. 256 degrees was max range of the GRT EIS I was using at the time so it might have been even higher. I went to low throttle as soon as the alarm went off and flew for about 6 minutes until I got to an airport (in Texas) and landed. Topped off the engine with tap water, fixed the cap and flew back to Florida. Engine showed no signs of distress and I put several hundred hours on it after that. Was using TES water jacket O-rings at the time. One other observation: The temp warning went off as soon as coolant level fell too low for the pump to work. The engine still had coolant in it and cooled the engine by boiling off some of the remaining coolant. Many have felt that it is a weakness with the rotary but I LIKE the pump being high i= n the system for this reason. If the pump had been low, it would have continued to pump water until there was almost nothing left. A temp warnin= g at this point leaves you no grace period and my engine would have been 'toast' after I landed. As Ed can testify, an engine overhaul away from home is no fun at all. Tracy On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: > Kelly, > After reading Al's post, I need to make a clarification on my previous oi= l > temp information. The 245* temps were *after* the cooler, at the oil > filter pad, so who knows what they were coming out of the engine. Over t= he > last year I've instrumented my oil & water cooling systems so many differ= ent > ways that I sometimes get confused as to what I'm reading on the EFIS & > EM-2. Presently, I'm taking oil temp readings after the first oil/air > cooler, then after the oil/water exchanger (as the oil enters the engine)= . > I do this to monitor how well each of the oil coolers are working. Sorry > for the confusion. > > Mark S. > > > On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 12:54 AM, Al Gietzen wrote: > > > Mark, > > > > That is the kind of "Real World" info we like to > > hear.......Particularly > > > > since there is some difference of opinion as to the need or suitability > > > > for the use of the "TES" seals among the group.......... > > > > -- > > Kelly Troyer > > > > My 20B has the stock O-rings, and I've had the engine exit oil up to > > 235-240 a number of times, coolant temp to 200F =96 never for very long= - no > > issues. I figure a max short duration limit on the pan temp is 250. Max= on > > oil return, about 220F. Cruise below 190. > > > > I'm installing an oil/coolant exchanger looking to reduce the oil temp > > by about 15 degrees. > > > > I had done all my analysis around using a Setrab TOC300, then when > > ordering found they have stopped making it. Anyone have one lying arou= nd? > > > > Al > > > > > > > > > ------=_Part_2732_8955282.1205598669916 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
For another data point, I had coolant temps above 256 degrees whe= n I lost coolant due to a malfunctioning radiator cap.  256 degrees wa= s max range of the GRT EIS I was using at the time so it might have be= en even higher. I went to low throttle as soon as the alarm went = off and flew for about 6 minutes until I got to an airport (in Texas) = and landed.   Topped off the engine with tap water, fixed the cap= and flew back to Florida.   Engine showed no signs of distress a= nd I put several hundred hours on it after that.  Was using TES water = jacket O-rings at the time.
 
One other observation:   The temp warning went off as soon a= s coolant level fell too low for the pump to work.  The engine still h= ad coolant in it and cooled the engine by boiling off some of the remaining= coolant.  Many have felt that it is a weakness with the rotary but I = LIKE the pump being high in the system for this reason.  If the pump h= ad been low, it would have continued to pump water until there was almost n= othing left.  A temp warning at this point leaves you no grace period = and my engine would have been 'toast' after I landed.  As Ed c= an testify, an engine overhaul away from home is no fun at all.
 
Tracy


 
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Mark Steitle &l= t;msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Kelly,
After reading Al'= s post, I need to make a clarification on my previous oil temp information.=   The 245* temps were after the cooler, at the oil filter pad, = so who knows what they were coming out of the engine.  Over the last y= ear I've instrumented my oil & water cooling systems so many differ= ent ways that I sometimes get confused as to what I'm reading on the EF= IS & EM-2.   Presently, I'm taking oil temp readings afte= r the first oil/air cooler, then after the oil/water exchanger (as the oil = enters the engine).  I do this to monitor how well each of the oil coo= lers are working.  Sorry for the confusion.

Mark S.


On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 12:54 AM, Al Gietzen <= ;ALVentures@cox.net= > wrote:

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Mark,

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">    That is the kind of "= ;Real World" info we like to hear.......Particularly

=

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">since there is some difference of opinion as= to the need or suitability

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">for the use of the "TES" seals amo= ng the group..........

--Kelly Troyer

M= y 20B has the stock O-rings, and I've had the engine exit oil up to 235= -240 a number of times, coolant temp to 200F =96 never for very long - no i= ssues. I figure a max short duration limit on the pan temp is 250. Max on o= il return, about 220F.  Cruise below 190.

I= 'm installing an oil/coolant exchanger looking to reduce the oil temp b= y about 15 degrees.

I= had done all my analysis around using a Setrab TOC300, then when ordering = found they have stopped making it.  Anyone have one lying around?

A= l

 = ;



------=_Part_2732_8955282.1205598669916--