X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rn-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.170.188] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2778249 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 10:01:48 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.170.188; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id e24so236967rng.1 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:01:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=Iu4ayc5zprJ80hYdhV9cASPljEddc+RCrpTtIM+II84=; b=Ug5wLPRovsDiKTpK+inGHma1YyFdBYABE82KMOKtbflozhP019UmQ0vnL89dJGapCFIo1i0kY17U95jNx7LaFrJYOU5j8BES9zvSxZDrqOUAg8JGFYWuJeAQd+NVbgTEWhkh7xaT5O8A1DRHmJ7vtEBOuZLUSPRqIM8g9fnZZXA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=QeiP0BkVlu+jQ3tlgQhqpw5iZ2lzgPzWr7bKd471CZdoY9/jXuBrqWuSgWlsSJAJZ5oJt9UBZjgrXjr5zOhaY+FfJUUc6Zkc4ZwB3We0//8125We3pSGUDjx4i6JeaI3os+JFQLOandY+WAbQaX3DvjZ/rTdYWRPyM2cXXMaNKI= Received: by 10.114.14.1 with SMTP id 1mr4644017wan.9.1204729265954; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.60.10 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:01:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0803050701u74dd8240h8d15cb95b3269e46@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 10:01:05 -0500 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Disaster Averted In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19085_33119121.1204729265926" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 67087687ae57a962 ------=_Part_19085_33119121.1204729265926 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I was impressed with the IVO static thrust when I tried it too. Just didn't like the cruise and top speed numbers but that should be less of a factor on canards since the air is dirty near the hub where the "IVO drag" is. Can't figure out why you have hot start problems from your descriptions but I'm not real familiar with your intake systems layout. I was having similar hot starting problems with my 20B but I knew the cause (low cranking compression). I had a custom hand built set of apex seals that turned out to have dimension errors. Do you know your hot cranking compression? If not, it's worth measuring given your symptoms. The other starting problem I've seen lately was on Renesis crank sensors caused by starter noise pickup. I know you don't have a Renesis CAS but it might be worth trying the 1000 ohm resistors on your 2nd gen sensors just in case. (remember, there are 2 sensors in the 2nd gen CAS). The key symptom with starter induced noise is that the engine will often try it's best to start (or sometimes actually start) at the moment when you release the starter switch. Tracy On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Christopher Barber < CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote: > It is amazing what a little change can make. After I let my engine cool > for > about two hours last night I was able to get it to start again. I had run > it earlier at fast idle to see how long it took to get the temps up. It > took about 16 minutes for the coolant temp to hit 200 degrees on an 80 > degree day. Most of the run the oil temp was almost exactly the same as > the > coolant, but was about 12-14 degrees higher when I shut it down. Not too > bad I hope even though it did seem to run rich from yesterday with the > mixture knob at 12oclock and needed leaning. > > While I was waiting for it to cool I decided to flatten out the IVO > in-flight adjustable pitch prop. It was almost there already, but I hooked > a > battery to the contact and made it fully flat. After screwing with the > hot > start for a while, it finally fired up (Geeesh, what a pain). Everything > seemed normal except it was rough near idle but smoothed out as I gave it > some throttle. On a wild hair I figured I would increase it to WOT to see > if would stay smooth......BOY, did it stay smooth. The rpm shot to above > 6000 before I knew it (without the EM RPM numbers jumping around this time > as has been a continuing problem) and the plane, which was chocked with > chocks and old full size batteries and a few assorted junk engine parts > started moving forward.......WITH FULL BRAKES APPLIED....skidding towards > my > hangar mates restoration project VariEZ. HOLLY CRAP!!!!!, where the hell > did > that come from????? I could barely hit 5000 yesterday. > > Needles to say, I quickly throttled back with the mixed emotion of terror > of > my own stupidity and the rush of excitement to all the seeming new power. > Until I remembered that I changed the pitch on the prop I could not > understand where all the power came from as I did not change anything > else. > Mind you I had INTENDED to look into my crystal ball for the answer to my > warm start problems during the cooling time, but, alas, an airport friend > stopped by and it was mutual Liberaltarian social hour . > > FWIW, just a combination war story/progress report with memories of John > Slade reporting on a similar experience a few years back . > > All the best, > > Chris > > Christopher Barber > Attorney and Counselor at Law > 5116 Bissonnet, No 418 > Bellaire, Texas 77401 > > Serving the Needs of Senior Texans through > Planning with Purpose > > 281-464-LAWS (5297) > 281-754-4168 Fax > www.TexasAttorney.net > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > ------=_Part_19085_33119121.1204729265926 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
I was impressed with the IVO static thrust when I tried it too.  Just didn't like the cruise and top speed numbers but that should be less of a factor on canards since the air is dirty near the hub where the "IVO drag" is.
 
Can't figure out why you have hot start problems from your descriptions but I'm not real familiar with your intake systems layout.   I was having similar hot starting problems with my 20B but I knew the cause (low cranking compression).  I had a custom hand built set of apex seals that turned out to have dimension errors.  Do you know your hot cranking compression?  If not, it's worth measuring given your symptoms.
 
The other starting problem I've seen lately was on Renesis crank sensors caused by starter noise pickup.  I know you don't have a Renesis CAS but it might be worth trying the 1000 ohm resistors on your 2nd gen sensors just in case.  (remember, there are 2 sensors in the 2nd gen CAS).   The key symptom with starter induced noise is that the engine will often try it's best to start (or sometimes actually start) at the moment when you release the starter switch.
 
Tracy  

On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Christopher Barber <CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
It is amazing what a little change can make. After I let my engine cool for
about two hours last night I was able to get it to start again.  I had run
it earlier at fast idle to see how long it took to get the temps up.  It
took about 16 minutes for the coolant temp to hit 200 degrees on an 80
degree day.  Most of the run the oil temp was almost exactly the same as the
coolant, but was about 12-14 degrees higher when I shut it down.  Not too
bad I hope even though it did seem to run rich from yesterday with the
mixture knob at 12oclock and needed leaning.

While I was waiting for it to cool I decided to flatten out the IVO
in-flight adjustable pitch prop. It was almost there already, but I hooked a
battery to the contact and made it fully flat.  After screwing with the hot
start for a while, it finally fired up (Geeesh, what a pain).  Everything
seemed normal except it was rough near idle but smoothed out as I gave it
some throttle.  On a wild hair I figured I would increase it to WOT to see
if would stay smooth......BOY, did it stay smooth.  The rpm shot to above
6000 before I knew it (without the EM RPM numbers jumping around this time
as has been a continuing problem) and the plane, which was chocked with
chocks and old full size batteries and a few assorted junk engine parts
started moving forward.......WITH FULL BRAKES APPLIED....skidding towards my
hangar mates restoration project VariEZ. HOLLY CRAP!!!!!, where the hell did
that come from?????  I could barely hit 5000 yesterday.

Needles to say, I quickly throttled back with the mixed emotion of terror of
my own stupidity and the rush of excitement to all the seeming new power.
Until I remembered that I changed the pitch on the prop I could not
understand where all the power came from as I did not change anything else.
Mind you I had INTENDED to look into my crystal ball for the answer to my
warm start problems during the cooling time, but, alas, an airport friend
stopped by and it was mutual Liberaltarian social hour <g>.

FWIW, just a combination war story/progress report with memories of John
Slade reporting on a similar experience a few years back <g>.

All the best,

Chris

Christopher Barber
Attorney and Counselor at Law
5116 Bissonnet, No 418
Bellaire, Texas 77401

Serving the Needs of Senior Texans through
Planning with Purpose

281-464-LAWS (5297)
281-754-4168 Fax
www.TexasAttorney.net



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