X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.24] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2772014 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 01:11:19 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.24; envelope-from=gregw@onestopdesign.biz Received: from OMTA14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.60]) by QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id vi191Y0041HpZEsA201200; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 06:10:08 +0000 Received: from gregoryii ([24.6.40.29]) by OMTA14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id viAe1Y0020dkeQQ8a00000; Sat, 01 Mar 2008 06:10:41 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=Qb8zsypa-H0A:10 a=yXONRP96cD6kyzsH8rkA:9 a=3D9d0q_G1-rB9cgTs7UA:7 a=uHjiivR8CI8WckWV5dRYvFCifDwA:4 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=IJ9GriFLXp4A:10 a=axMX1joxAAAA:8 a=zuiYWAAKQFRsaHLoj7EA:9 a=V4079qey1T4Zkx3prBIA:7 a=IWQk_YqiPG-z7r6EEnFZVNSicMMA:4 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=agiDspJIEegA:10 a=ct1jHBItfXcA:10 Message-ID: <012501c87b63$191a1e60$8801a8c0@yosemite.onestopdesign.biz> From: "Greg Ward" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:36:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008C_01C87B1B.32AA8AB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C87B1B.32AA8AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Appreciate it Bill, research is a bit.. will continue... Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: wrjjrs@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list Greg, The P-51 intake did several things that were unique before it came = out. The stand-off for boundary layer hadn't been done that well = previously. The proper KW bell shaped diffuser and very thick radiator = and oil cooler. (Those probably wouldn't work as well for us, don't = forget nearly 400 MPH) in a Lancair with a good setup you will run close = to 300 so it is probably worth it. Don't forget that you would want to = narrow up the front cowling since the heat exchangers aren't there to = buy back some of the scoop drag. Don't for get to include the movable = sugar-scoop/cowl flap at the rear. The literature I have seen says that = the scoop didn't provide thrust, rather it almost broke even on drag, = which is almost the same thing. One other item I saw about the P-51 = scoop was that the shallow angle of the front of the opening wasn't a = trivial thing. They did tests and found that the angle gave the best = overall performance between climb and hig speed cruise. it was about = 15=C2=B0 top side (fuselage side) forward. Get a book with a cutaway = before you start you will be amazed how extensive the scoop is. Just a = few items for your consideration. I think it is a good idea, but you = need to know it my not be as easy as it looks, but then what ever is?=20 Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: Greg Ward To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 8:50 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list I would also be really interested in seeing some others cooling = solutions. I was told that 40% of the Lancair's drag is in the cooling = drag, and I am contemplating a belly scoop A la' P-51, and have created = controversy about how much that configuration will add to the drag = factor. In other words, I might get great cooling at a slower speed? = Supposedly the P-51 configuration creates enough thrust to overcome = around 90% of the drag created, but I would like to confirm that before = I go through the process of designing and building the damn = thing.......(:-) Call me lazy... Greg Ward 20B Lancair in Progress ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Wills=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:26 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list Well, it's not as beautiful as it once was. Had to add some ugly = bumps for exhaust clearance. Finally threw in the towel on a clean oil = cooler install and added a second scoop and stock RX7 cooler below the = rad inlet. Can I attach pictures here? At the moment it appears during full power ground runs that I have = excess cooling capacity, both oil and water. Never been over 180 on = either. Which brings me to thinking (again) about oil/water heat = exchangers. Has anyone successfully implemented one? If so what are you = using? I may eventually be able to get rid of that second scoop. Mike ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russell Duffy=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:57 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list I was on this list years ago when it first started up. Job change = and other issues slowed progress on my project and I unsubscribed.=20 Hey, Mike's Back :-) Good to hear from you again. Can't wait until all the new folks = see that beautiful cowl :-) Cheers, Rusty =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Supercharge your AIM. Get the AIM toolbar for your browser. ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C87B1B.32AA8AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Appreciate it Bill, research is a bit.. will=20 continue...
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 = 3:10=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New = (old) guy on=20 list

Greg,
The P-51 intake did several things that were unique before it = came out.=20 The stand-off for boundary layer hadn't been done that well = previously. The=20 proper KW bell shaped diffuser and very thick radiator and oil cooler. = (Those=20 probably wouldn't work as well for us, don't forget nearly 400 MPH) in = a=20 Lancair with a good setup you will run close to 300 so it is = probably=20 worth it. Don't forget that you would want to narrow up the front = cowling=20 since the heat exchangers aren't there to buy back some of the scoop = drag.=20 Don't for get to include the movable sugar-scoop/cowl flap at the = rear. The=20 literature I have seen says that the scoop didn't provide thrust, = rather it=20 almost broke even on drag, which is almost the same thing. One other = item I=20 saw about the P-51 scoop was that the shallow angle of the front of = the=20 opening wasn't a trivial thing. They did tests and found that the = angle gave=20 the best overall performance between climb and hig speed cruise. it = was about=20 15=C2=B0 top side (fuselage side) forward. Get a book with a cutaway = before you=20 start you will be amazed how extensive the scoop is. Just a few items = for your=20 consideration. I think it is a good idea, but you need to know it my = not be as=20 easy as it looks, but then what ever is?
Bill Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Greg = Ward=20 <gregw@onestopdesign.biz>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 8:50=20 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list

I would also be really interested in seeing = some others=20 cooling solutions.  I was told that 40% of the Lancair's = drag is in=20 the cooling drag, and I am contemplating a belly scoop A la' P-51, and = have=20 created controversy about how much that configuration will add to the = drag=20 factor.  In other words, I might get great cooling at a slower=20 speed?  Supposedly the P-51 configuration creates enough thrust = to=20 overcome around 90% of the drag created, but I would like to confirm = that=20 before I go through the process of designing and building the damn=20 thing.......(:-)  Call me lazy...
Greg Ward
20B Lancair in Progress
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mike = Wills=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Friday, February 29, = 2008 7:26=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New = (old) guy=20 on list

Well, it's not as beautiful as it = once was. Had=20 to add some ugly bumps for exhaust clearance. Finally threw in the = towel on=20 a clean oil cooler install and added a second scoop and stock RX7 = cooler=20 below the rad inlet.
 
 Can I attach pictures = here?
 
 At the moment it appears = during full=20 power ground runs that I have excess cooling capacity, both oil and = water.=20 Never been over 180 on either. Which brings me to thinking (again) = about=20 oil/water heat exchangers. Has anyone successfully implemented one? = If so=20 what are you using? I may eventually be able to get rid of that = second=20 scoop.
 
Mike
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Russell=20 Duffy
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Thursday, February = 28, 2008=20 8:57 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = New (old)=20 guy on list

 I was on this list = years ago when=20 it first started up. Job change and other issues slowed progress = on my=20 project and I unsubscribed. 
 
Hey, Mike's Back =20 :-)
 
Good to hear from you again.  = Can't wait=20 until all the new folks see that beautiful cowl=20 :-)
 
Cheers,
Rusty  
=
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