X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.2] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2771664 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:32:41 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.2; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id q.c76.20ed3aa2 (34933) for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:31:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail-nd13 (webmail-nd13.sim.aol.com [207.200.67.98]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA046-887547c895ed195; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:31:57 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:31:57 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 65.161.241.3 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: wrjjrs@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA494268F4EA98_C40_D475_webmail-nd13.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 34865-STANDARD Received: from 65.161.241.3 by webmail-nd13.sysops.aol.com (207.200.67.98) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:31:57 -0500 Message-Id: <8CA494268A3DA1C-C40-6A0B@webmail-nd13.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO ----------MB_8CA494268F4EA98_C40_D475_webmail-nd13.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bobby, I am familiar with Ross's RV-10 project, and I think he will be successful, BUT that is absolutely NOT a P-51 type scoop. It is a belly scoop that resembles a P-51 scoop. He is exhausting the air directly out the back and the radiator is nowhere near as inset as a '51. As Ed mentioned the North American team changed the scoop at?several times, before getting the best defuser shape and radiator configuration. I would consider putting in a tank for spray bar water if?you are forced to idle on the ground frequently where you are. The ability to have a closeable rear flap?with a streamlined exit will help a bunch. The Lancair is a better candidate for this type of scoop since the strength is in the skin. I didn't think anybody would be willing to modify the floor of the RV-10 as there are a bunch of?rib/bulkheads near the rear of the fuselage. Ross?at SDSEFI got around that by keeping the scoop mostly external.? Bill Jepson BTW?i believe?that?Ross scoop started life as a ProStock hood scoop.? -----Original Message----- From: Bobby J. Hughes To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 1:56 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list RV10, P51 radiator arrangement. http://www.sdsefi.com/air46.htm This project has not flown yet but it does look interesting. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ernest Christley Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 3:42 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list Greg Ward wrote: > MessageI would also be really interested in seeing some others cooling solutions. I was told that 40% of the Lancair's drag is in the cooling drag, and I am contemplating a belly scoop A la' P-51, and have created controversy about how much that configuration will add to the drag factor. In other words, I might get great cooling at a slower speed? Supposedly the P-51 configuration creates enough thrust to overcome around 90% of the drag created, but I would like to confirm that before I go through the process of designing and building the damn thing.......(:-) Call me lazy... > Greg Ward > 20B Lancair in Progress > My survey of the studies and anecdotal evidence that I could find, indicate fairly conclusively that radiators inside the engine cowl is about the worst possible option when considering cooling drag. However, for many it is the only option, and for most it is by far the easiest option. The planform of my project is completely different than most, giving me a relatively easy option of installing the rads and ducting within the wing's 18" thick airfoil. I'm not even fantasizing that I will wind up with net positive thrust, just confident that it won't be quite so negative. With a conventional planform, how would you seperate the hot tube from the fleshy parts of the airplane? Long hose runs will be heavy, especially if you use 1" hose to keep a reasonable flow. And the placement of the weight could possibly play havoc with your W&B (it was actually a slight improvement for my situation). One thing is very clear, though. If you can make it work, it'll be one of the sweetest looking Lancairs on any field it visits. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ----------MB_8CA494268F4EA98_C40_D475_webmail-nd13.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Bobby, I am familiar with Ross's RV-10 project, and I think he will be successful, BUT that is absolutely NOT a P-51 type scoop. It is a belly scoop that resembles a P-51 scoop. He is exhausting the air directly out the back and the radiator is nowhere near as inset as a '51. As Ed mentioned the North American team changed the scoop at several times, before getting the best defuser shape and radiator configuration. I would consider putting in a tank for spray bar water if you are forced to idle on the ground frequently where you are. The ability to have a closeable rear flap with a streamlined exit will help a bunch. The Lancair is a better candidate for this type of scoop since the strength is in the skin. I didn't think anybody would be willing to modify the floor of the RV-10 as there are a bunch of rib/bulkheads near the rear of the fuselage. Ross at SDSEFI got around that by keeping the scoop mostly external. 
Bill Jepson
BTW i believe that Ross scoop started life as a ProStock hood scoop. 



-----Original Message-----
From: Bobby J. Hughes <bhughes@qnsi.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 1:56 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list

 RV10, P51 radiator arrangement. http://www.sdsefi.com/air46.htm

This project has not flown yet but it does look interesting.

Bobby


-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Ernest Christley
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 3:42 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list

Greg Ward wrote:
> MessageI would also be really interested in seeing some others cooling
solutions.  I was told that 40% of the Lancair's drag is in the cooling
drag, and I am contemplating a belly scoop A la' P-51, and have created
controversy about how much that configuration will add to the drag
factor.  In other words, I might get great cooling at a slower speed?
Supposedly the P-51 configuration creates enough thrust to overcome
around 90% of the drag created, but I would like to confirm that before
I go through the process of designing and building the damn
thing.......(:-)  Call me lazy...
> Greg Ward
> 20B Lancair in Progress
>   
My survey of the studies and anecdotal evidence that I could find,
indicate fairly conclusively that radiators inside the engine cowl is
about the worst possible option when considering cooling drag.  However,
for many it is the only option, and for most it is by far the easiest
option.  The planform of my project is completely different than most,
giving me a relatively easy option of installing the rads and ducting
within the wing's 18" thick airfoil.  I'm not even fantasizing that I
will wind up with net positive thrust, just confident that it won't be
quite so negative.

With a conventional planform, how would you seperate the hot tube from
the fleshy parts of the airplane?  Long hose runs will be heavy,
especially if you use 1" hose to keep a reasonable flow.  And the
placement of the weight could possibly play havoc with your W&B (it was
actually a slight improvement for my situation).

One thing is very clear, though.  If you can make it work, it'll be one
of the sweetest looking Lancairs on any field it visits.

--
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