X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com ([205.188.139.137] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2771640 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:11:21 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.139.137; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id q.c80.220f4b8b (37546) for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:10:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail-nd13 (webmail-nd13.sim.aol.com [207.200.67.98]) by cia-mb02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB027-92aa47c890ef33c; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:10:39 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:10:39 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 65.161.241.3 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: wrjjrs@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA493F6F3A2310_C40_D1B9_webmail-nd13.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 34865-STANDARD Received: from 65.161.241.3 by webmail-nd13.sysops.aol.com (207.200.67.98) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:10:39 -0500 Message-Id: <8CA493F6E802A6C-C40-68A4@webmail-nd13.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO ----------MB_8CA493F6F3A2310_C40_D1B9_webmail-nd13.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Greg, The P-51 intake did several things that were unique before it came out. The=20= stand-off for boundary layer hadn't been done that well previously. The prop= er KW bell shaped diffuser and very thick radiator and oil cooler. (Those pr= obably wouldn't work as well for us, don't forget nearly 400 MPH) in a Lanca= ir=C2=A0with a good setup you will run close to 300 so it is probably worth=20= it. Don't forget that you would want to narrow up the front cowling since th= e heat exchangers aren't there to buy back some of the scoop drag. Don't for= get to include the movable sugar-scoop/cowl flap at the rear. The literatur= e I have seen says that the scoop didn't provide thrust, rather it almost br= oke even on drag, which is almost the same thing. One other item I saw about= the P-51 scoop was that the shallow angle of the front of the opening wasn'= t a trivial thing. They did tests and found that the angle gave the best ove= rall performance between climb and hig speed cruise. it was about 15=C2=B0 t= op side (fuselage side) forward. Get a book with a cutaway before you start=20= you will be amazed how extensive the scoop is. Just a few items for your con= sideration. I think it is a good idea, but you need to know it my not be as=20= easy as it looks, but then what ever is?=20 Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: Greg Ward To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 8:50 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list I would also be really interested in seeing some others cooling solutions.= =C2=A0 I was told that 40% of the=C2=A0Lancair's drag is in the cooling drag= , and I am contemplating a belly scoop A la' P-51, and have created controve= rsy about how much that configuration will add to the drag factor.=C2=A0 In=20= other words, I might get great cooling at a slower speed?=C2=A0 Supposedly t= he P-51 configuration creates enough thrust to overcome around 90% of the dr= ag created, but I would like to confirm that before I go through the process= of designing and building the damn thing.......(:-)=C2=A0 Call me lazy... Greg Ward 20B Lancair in Progress ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Wills=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:26 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list Well, it's not as beautiful as it once was. Had to add some ugly bumps for e= xhaust clearance. Finally threw in the towel on a clean oil cooler install a= nd added a second scoop and stock RX7 cooler below the rad inlet. =C2=A0 =C2=A0Can I attach pictures here? =C2=A0 =C2=A0At the moment it appears during full power ground runs that I have exc= ess cooling capacity, both oil and water. Never been over 180 on either. Whi= ch brings me to thinking (again) about oil/water heat exchangers. Has anyone= successfully implemented one? If so what are you using? I may eventually be= able to get rid of that second scoop. =C2=A0 Mike ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russell Duffy=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:57 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list =C2=A0I was on this list years ago when it first started up. Job change and=20= other issues slowed progress on my project and I unsubscribed.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hey, Mike's Back=C2=A0 :-) =C2=A0 Good to hear from you again.=C2=A0 Can't wait until all the new folks see th= at beautiful cowl :-) =C2=A0 Cheers, Rusty =C2=A0 ----------MB_8CA493F6F3A2310_C40_D1B9_webmail-nd13.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Greg,
The P-51 intake did several things that were unique before it came out.= The stand-off for boundary layer hadn't been done that well previously. The= proper KW bell shaped diffuser and very thick radiator and oil cooler. (Tho= se probably wouldn't work as well for us, don't forget nearly 400 MPH) in a=20= Lancair with a good setup you will run close to 300 so it is probably w= orth it. Don't forget that you would want to narrow up the front cowling sin= ce the heat exchangers aren't there to buy back some of the scoop drag. Don'= t for get to include the movable sugar-scoop/cowl flap at the rear. The lite= rature I have seen says that the scoop didn't provide thrust, rather it almo= st broke even on drag, which is almost the same thing. One other item I saw=20= about the P-51 scoop was that the shallow angle of the front of the opening=20= wasn't a trivial thing. They did tests and found that the angle gave the bes= t overall performance between climb and hig speed cruise. it was about 15= =C2=B0 top side (fuselage side) forward. Get a book with a cutaway before yo= u start you will be amazed how extensive the scoop is. Just a few items for=20= your consideration. I think it is a good idea, but you need to know it my no= t be as easy as it looks, but then what ever is?
Bill Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Ward <gregw@onestopdesign.biz>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 8:50 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) guy on list

I would also be really interested in seeing some oth= ers cooling solutions.  I was told that 40% of the Lancair's drag=20= is in the cooling drag, and I am contemplating a belly scoop A la' P-51, and= have created controversy about how much that configuration will add to the=20= drag factor.  In other words, I might get great cooling at a slower spe= ed?  Supposedly the P-51 configuration creates enough thrust to overcom= e around 90% of the drag created, but I would like to confirm that before I=20= go through the process of designing and building the damn thing.......(:-)&n= bsp; Call me lazy...
Greg Ward
20B Lancair in Progress
----- Original Message -----
F= rom: Mike W= ills
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 7:26=20= AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) gu= y on list

Well, it's not as beautiful as it once was.= Had to add some ugly bumps for exhaust clearance. Finally threw in the towe= l on a clean oil cooler install and added a second scoop and stock RX7 coole= r below the rad inlet.
 
 Can I attach pictures here?
 
 At the moment it appears during full=20= power ground runs that I have excess cooling capacity, both oil and water. N= ever been over 180 on either. Which brings me to thinking (again) about oil/= water heat exchangers. Has anyone successfully implemented one? If so what a= re you using? I may eventually be able to get rid of that second scoop.
 
Mike
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:5= 7 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New (old) gu= y on list

 I was on this list years ago wh= en it first started up. Job change and other issues slowed progress on my pr= oject and I unsubscribed. 
 
Hey, Mike's Back  :-)
 
Good to hear from you again.  Can't wait until all the new= folks see that beautiful cowl :-)
 
Cheers,
Rusty  
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