X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.178] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2758807 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:36:31 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.249.90.178; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b35so364299ika.3 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:35:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=wJ3GNGGMlZeF5nsZOb5lplm+SXAjPWw2xVUXiQ4KoCQ=; b=aWKA6XaZw+o4Wye5ycHWdvrSp77WYVCooNayySPgsUkJERaI13gTNOBH4rZoLV+oJU5x6tRbWNIpi7y7W/u18YzZcBnGC+58s1e1TqConzZpX7726EeRZ/uaEO5qbyHHNAO/s4ZfonZuOu8KPE/3gm5yBjDGZdGKtEGFo/PHoIY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=OGwViq6kwh7qtTvsqo80HVCzVjz6G8DnDI2iEosXDv+boCvnEPtiRG30HV25Cwe8MJxVysi/QP+O2ub3NUsyqXcpGmWkskEnksfVrKOasEMEY8WkdXxcGkc/HUu/8E3PJ0Tir1ZeS/VnhYTL2NSM/SEcglUogjh9qBsb+545RFE= Received: by 10.142.47.6 with SMTP id u6mr4320892wfu.29.1204061747915; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:35:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.125.5 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:35:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0802261335sa51062tb4ee831aaac2cfa4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:35:47 -0500 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: More Musings...ah screw it, just shoot me! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3435_11648444.1204061747860" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: ac4433070230558c ------=_Part_3435_11648444.1204061747860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ed's point about the ground is a good one. If your panel is not securly fastened to the airframe, (and it sounds like it wasn't) there is a good chance that all the stuff on it lost it's ground reference. Not a good thing, that can cause a lot of damage. When working with a loose panel, you should always supply a ground wire to the panel or have separate ground wires to all the stuff requiring them. Tracy On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: > Ah, the frustration! Most of us have been there (some more than once) > > You mention two things - you installed the new regulator AND the > instrument panel shifted from its original position just before the second > start. I strongly suspect that one of those actions may well have > contributed to your EM going bananas and perhaps other problems. I would > check my grounds for certain. If you do not have a good electrical ground > then there is no voltage reference for the chips and they can do all sort of > strange things. > > I would think the easiest (could be wrong) thing to do is to disconnect > the voltage regulator temporarily and see if that has any effect, next I > would check to make certain I had a good electrical ground. > > Good luck > > Ed > > Ed Anderson > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > Matthews, NC > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > http://www.andersonee.com > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Christopher Barber > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, February 25, 2008 10:28 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] More Musings...ah screw it, just shoot me! > > Got off work and happily headed to the hangar. I was able to get it to > start and stay pretty cool for a while as I played with the settings. > Switched from Controller A to B, back to A, disabled the Primary Injectors, > the Secondary Injectors(in succession ), switched back to B, did the > disable toggle spring switch with an expected drop in RPM...switch back to > center and expected RPM returns. Throttled up and the RPM steadily increased > without jumping around until it got to 4999 or so and went to zero and > started jumping around above 5000 rpm......no big deal yet as we discussed > the possible noise issue yesterday and I have not checked the problems yet. > Used my laser temp gauge to see if the engine and the EM were kinda close, > they were. Tried out my new Harbor Freight laser RPM gauge, but couldn't > get it to work right. Ok, Several minutes has gone by so I shut down to let > it cool. Tried to restart to no avail...so I decide to let the system cool > for an extended period. > > While waiting I decide to install my new B&C $230.00ish Regulator. > Already have one of these gems on the primary battery system and feel it is > time to install the new one that arrived a couple of weeks ago on the Aux > side of things, so I shut down all the systems, disconnect the batteries, > crimp some new connectors on some of the wires to fit the new regulator get > everything hooked back up and feel pretty good about the night. Heh heh > heh, silly me. > > A while has gone by and everything seems to have cooled off. I hold my > tongue just right and crank the engine and with some grace of the engine > Gawds the thing cranks up. Wait...what is this...the EM is showing the RPM, > but, but oh, damn it is flashing NOP. It was not doing that before. Damn. > Hmmmm, the Coolant temp and Oil temp are showing exactly the same temp at 44 > degrees....lets see if they start to raise....Agggghhh, no, they are both > stuck on 44 degrees F. Geeeez. I know, lets try the "B" controller and see > what happens......NOOOOOOOOO, I switch to the "B" controller and the engine > starts to die. Damn, damn, damn. What the hell just happened????? > Thoughts???????? > > Yes, I am disappointed in the evening that started on a positive note. > This (Monday) is my Friday night and I have the next two days to make > progress. If'n y'all have any easy answers for me I would love to hear 'em > as I would like to think the next two days would be steps forward as opposed > to just trying to get back to where I was. I did not even start to > troubleshoot yet as I was too frustrated and needed to walk away for a while > to sulk . Did I fry the "B": controller with a new/better regulator. > Everything was disconnected during the install and nothing else > changed....OTHER than the instrument panel shifted from its temporary mount > just before the second start. > > Hopin' for some insight and perspective before I go kick my dog when I go > to the hangar tomorrow (ok, I would never kick Winston he is really a good > dog, but y'all get the idea). As always, THANKS for your support. > > All the best, > > Chris Barber > Houston > > ------=_Part_3435_11648444.1204061747860 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Ed's point about the ground is a good one.  If your panel is = not securly fastened to the airframe, (and it sounds like it wasn't)&nb= sp;there is a good chance that all the stuff on it lost it's ground ref= erence.  Not a good thing, that can cause a lot of damage.   = ;
 
When working with a loose panel, you should always supply a ground wir= e to the panel or have separate ground wires to all the stuff requiring the= m.
 
Tracy

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Ed Anderson <= ;eanderson@carolina.rr.com= > wrote:
Ah, the frustration!  Most of us have been t= here (some more than once)
 
You mention two things - you installed the new re= gulator AND the instrument panel shifted from its original position just be= fore the second start.  I strongly suspect that one of those actions m= ay well have contributed to your EM going bananas and perhaps other problem= s.  I would check my grounds for certain.  If you do not have a g= ood electrical ground then there is no voltage reference for the = chips and they can do all sort of strange things.
 
I would think the easiest (could be wrong) thing = to do is to disconnect the voltage regulator temporarily and see if that ha= s any effect, next I would check to make certain I had a good electrical gr= ound.
 
Good luck
 
Ed
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:2= 8 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] More Musings...= ah screw it, just shoot me!

Got off work and happily headed to the= hangar.  I was able to get it to start and stay pretty cool for a whi= le as I played with the settings.  Switched from Controller A to B, ba= ck to A, disabled the Primary Injectors, the Secondary Injectors(in success= ion <g>), switched back to B, did the disable toggle spring swit= ch with an expected drop in RPM...switch back to center and expected RPM re= turns. Throttled up and the RPM steadily increased without jumping around u= ntil it got to 4999 or so and went to zero and started jumping around above= 5000 rpm......no big deal yet as we discussed the possible noise issue yes= terday and I have not checked the problems yet.  Used my laser temp ga= uge to see if the engine and the EM were kinda close, they were.  Trie= d out my new Harbor Freight laser RPM gauge, but couldn't get it to wor= k right.  Ok, Several minutes has gone by so I shut down to let it coo= l.  Tried to restart to no avail...so I decide to let the system cool = for an extended period.
 
While waiting I decide to install my n= ew B&C $230.00ish Regulator.  Already have one of these gems on th= e primary battery system and feel it is time to install the new one that ar= rived a couple of weeks ago on the Aux side of things, so I shut down all t= he systems, disconnect the batteries, crimp some new connectors on some of = the wires to fit the new regulator get everything hooked back up and feel p= retty good about the night.  Heh heh heh, silly me.
 
A while has gone by and everythin= g seems to have cooled off.  I hold my tongue just right and crank the= engine and with some grace of the engine Gawds the thing cranks up.  = Wait...what is this...the EM is showing the RPM, but, but oh, damn it is fl= ashing NOP.  It was not doing that before. Damn.  Hmmmm, the Cool= ant temp and Oil temp are showing exactly the same temp at 44 degrees....le= ts see if they start to raise....Agggghhh, no, they are both stuck on 44 de= grees F.  Geeeez.  I know, lets try the "B" controller = and see what happens......NOOOOOOOOO, I switch to the "B" control= ler and the engine starts to die. Damn, damn, damn.  What the hell jus= t happened?????  Thoughts????????
 
Yes, I am disappointed in the evening = that started on a positive note.  This (Monday) is my Friday night and= I have the next two days to make progress.  If'n y'all have a= ny easy answers for me I would love to hear 'em as I would like to thin= k the next two days would be steps forward as opposed to just trying to get= back to where I was.  I did not even start to troubleshoot yet as I w= as too frustrated and needed to walk away for a while to sulk <g>.&nb= sp; Did I fry the "B": controller with a new/better regulator.&nb= sp; Everything was disconnected during the install and nothing else changed= ....OTHER than the instrument panel shifted from its temporary mount just b= efore the second start.
 
Hopin' for some insight and perspe= ctive before I go kick my dog when I go to the hangar tomorrow (ok, I would= never kick Winston he is really a good dog, but y'all get the idea). A= s always, THANKS for your support.
 
All the best,
 
Chris Barber
Houston

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