X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2756015 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:07:13 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.56; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from OMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.43]) by QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id tfw51Y0090vyq2s5600a00; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:06:04 +0000 Received: from WschertzPC ([71.57.77.95]) by OMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id tg6Y1Y00623NHuF3R00000; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:06:33 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=SJnMRBAfqsoA:10 a=l1gRVQQvX0NQ22-1jm8A:9 a=NWRN-JQlEwzfPZXrDfYA:7 a=CNtQWUKwEnUtbhtdHz1bCwTBPt4A:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 a=PE1sPx8XsIQ2OZ7pOM4A:9 a=zxuAAeqHTjF1NG0k8poA:7 a=r4bVpCEdSSn0TZMiTRloBQG0TtkA:4 a=XCwpvLtFMdsA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 Message-ID: <1511045AFC374842AFE655E70CB9433F@WschertzPC> From: "Bill Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Musings, Curiosities and Frustrations RE: My rotary install Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:06:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C87731.8398EF40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C87731.8398EF40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On the EM reading getting erratic, it may be noise pickup on the tach = signal. On the heating, when a car is idling, there is very little load. If you = stay stationary and rev the engine, there is STILL very little load, = while on the plane, the prop applies increasing load with rpm even if = standing still. Imagine what the car would do, pulling heavy load at = very low speed -- i.e. climbing a very steep gradient where it can only = go 5mph with the engine revving -- like going up a mountain -- cars = often overheat under those conditions. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS (reserved) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Barber=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Musings, Curiosities and Frustrations RE: My = rotary install I received my EC2/EM back from Tracy a week or so again and got it all = installed (luckily my EC2 is in an easy access location on the cabin = side firewall of my Velocity). After messin' with stuff and holding my = tongue just right I have gotten my engine to fire up and run. Thank = heavens, but now I have some questions for the collective regarding its = running and some issues I am unsure about. First, it seems if the stars are all aligned just right and Taurus is = in sync with Venus, I have gotten the engine to start my last three = trips to the hangar, however, I have not been able to get it to RE-start = following the initial start-up. It comes close and it will cough and = spew and fire but not quite start. So, it seems hard to start initially, = even though it has started when cold but then does not want to start = once run for several minutes. Thoughts? Second, on the EM, I will advance the throttle and watch the RPM rise, = but as I get to around 4500 rpm the rpm's start jumping around up to = like 6500 then drops to 2000, then maybe to 4000 rpm every couple of = seconds (I do not have NOP displayed though)....this is ONLY on the EM = the engine is churning steadily at a high RPM, but I have no idea of = what the rpm's really are. In the lower rpm's the monitor seems to be = more consistent....but actually it will jump around a bit too, but still = has a more realistically even display at what I believe the rpm's = actually are. Thoughts? Third, a bit more of a philosophical question. If we are using heat = exchangers that are maybe about the same size as used in a car why do we = seem to have cooling problems when the cars don't. Is it that when cars = are stationary in traffic the rpm's remain pretty low and if they were = revving at high rpm's they too would heat up faster? (also some = seriously refined engineering from the auto manufacturers). I have not = tweaked my cooling yet, but I have a pretty big radiator but I seem to = be getting over 200 degree's F after only several minutes of running. = It does take longer if it is running around 1000 rpm or below. I was = just curious as to why it does not seem to transfer from cars to our use = more directly. Would this be likely a non issue if I had 150 or so mph = ram air being forced through the rad and oil cooler? But again, like I = have said, my system has not been tweaked since I just got my computers = back and just got it running again (also, being in Houston likely does = not help any...even though it was a very pleasant 85 with low humidity = today. Would colder weather make much of a difference?) How long = should I expect to run the engine while stationary during engine testing = and refinement before needing to shut down? Tracy mentioned in the = manual that during "Auto Tune" mode, which may take about 10 minutes or = so that if the engine gets too hot, to shut down and start where you = left off after the engine cools. Is this about right, 10 minutes, or = so, and the engine may start to approach red line. If so, I may be = about right already. Thoughts? Finally, for now anyway, the rear seal on my "B" redrive failed. and I = was having oil spread out from the rear of the redrive I replaced the = seal (9009 IIRC) per Tracy's phone instructions and checked to make sure = the passages where clear, but low and behold, it is leaking again. = Sorry, not much to go on. I will disassemble again and check when I get = a chance though. Thoughts? As always thanks for the insight. I know I can get too close to the = issue and having a fresh perspective from y'all can be very helpful and = give me a chance to step away and go "of course" once it is pointed out = to me. Thanks. All the best, Chris Barber Houston ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C87731.8398EF40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On the EM reading getting erratic, it = may be noise=20 pickup on the tach signal.
 
On the heating, when a car is idling, = there is very=20 little load. If you stay stationary and rev the engine, there is STILL = very=20 little load, while on the plane, the prop applies increasing load with = rpm even=20 if standing still. Imagine what the car would do, pulling heavy load at = very low=20 speed -- i.e. climbing a very steep gradient where it can only go 5mph = with the=20 engine revving -- like going up a mountain -- cars often overheat under = those=20 conditions.
 
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS (reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Christopher Barber =
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 = 9:29=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Musings, = Curiosities=20 and Frustrations RE: My rotary install

I received my EC2/EM back from Tracy = a week or so=20 again and got it all installed (luckily my EC2 is in an easy access = location=20 on the cabin side firewall of my Velocity).  After messin' with = stuff and=20 holding my tongue just right I have gotten my engine to fire up and = run. =20 Thank heavens, but now I have some questions for the collective = regarding its=20 running and some issues I am unsure about.
 
First, it seems if the stars are all = aligned just=20 right and Taurus is in sync with Venus, I have = gotten the=20 engine to start my last three trips to the hangar, however, I have not = been=20 able to get it to RE-start following the initial start-up.  It = comes=20 close and it will cough and spew and fire but not quite start. So, it = seems=20 hard to start initially, even though it has started when cold but then = does=20 not want to start once run for several minutes. Thoughts?
 
Second, on the EM, I will advance the = throttle=20 and watch the RPM rise, but as I get to around 4500 rpm the rpm's = start=20 jumping around up to like 6500 then drops to 2000, then maybe to 4000 = rpm=20 every couple of seconds (I do not have NOP displayed though)....this = is ONLY=20 on the EM the engine is churning steadily at a high RPM, but I have no = idea of=20 what the rpm's really are. In the lower rpm's the monitor seems to be = more=20 consistent....but actually it will jump around a bit too, but still = has a more=20 realistically even display at what I believe the rpm's actually = are. =20 Thoughts?
 
Third, a bit more of a philosophical=20 question.  If we are using heat exchangers that are maybe about = the same=20 size as used in a car why do we seem to have cooling problems when the = cars=20 don't. Is it that when cars are stationary in traffic the rpm's remain = pretty=20 low and if they were revving at high rpm's they too would heat up = faster?=20 (also some seriously refined engineering from the auto=20 manufacturers).  I have not tweaked my cooling yet, but I have a = pretty=20 big radiator but I seem to be getting over 200 degree's F after only = several=20 minutes of running.  It does take longer if it is running around = 1000 rpm=20 or below.  I was just curious as to why it does not seem to = transfer from=20 cars to our use more directly.  Would this be likely a non issue = if I had=20 150 or so mph ram air being forced through the rad and oil cooler? But = again,=20 like I have said, my system has not been tweaked since I just got my = computers=20 back and just got it running again (also, being in Houston likely does = not=20 help any...even though it was a very pleasant 85 with low humidity=20 today.  Would colder weather make much of a difference?)  = How long=20 should I expect to run the engine while stationary during engine = testing and=20 refinement before needing to shut down? Tracy mentioned in the manual = that=20 during "Auto Tune" mode, which may take about 10 minutes or so that if = the=20 engine gets too hot, to shut down and start where you left off after = the=20 engine cools.  Is this about right, 10 minutes, or so, and the = engine may=20 start to approach red line.  If so, I may be about right = already. =20 Thoughts?
 
Finally, for now anyway, the rear = seal on my "B"=20 redrive failed. and I was having oil spread out from the rear of = the=20 redrive  I replaced the seal (9009 IIRC) per Tracy's phone = instructions=20 and checked to make sure the passages where clear, but low and behold, = it is=20 leaking again. Sorry, not much to go on.  I=20 will disassemble again and check when I get a chance=20 though. Thoughts?
 
As always thanks for the = insight.  I know I=20 can get too close to the issue and having a fresh perspective from = y'all can=20 be very helpful and give me a chance to step away and go "of course" = once it=20 is pointed out to me.
 
Thanks.
 
All the best,
 
Chris Barber
Houston
 
 
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