X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.235] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2714331 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 04 Feb 2008 08:00:11 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.184.235; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c49so1418218wra.1 for ; Mon, 04 Feb 2008 04:59:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:x-google-sender-auth; bh=PO2DhzaldVF/4j46fhxqhAMcqvHCR9wvvr/AWDVTq6U=; b=xqzQAEJlcxD8FLLoA9aIUjpzjhfuxA7r5ee4ulPang0rBelWAk8fkwdTrBdqkru1l8eZLKs5zl0Te2nZ95ey6emkg/X+2cpeY6IsIEWs9r6bI306t2KE3Pci1KYMhoJalhazffd8KRprmDRzo7CLR3LTmHNAeJqPt2FiVxHJE24= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:x-google-sender-auth; b=obZ8SX0Z920pOketB6wNVcFnndKAt5e2oQC86Gr7mvjZ075e0ubJ/13E9XLRqDNQkXGvOkp603MRd2oYpUswaXMn71xDcONSb/5Claq1H9a+nFgaZjEAvPxxtNkd9z39AmnlxmsrE7BvIJ5g/FBsidfS14xY92x7I9AamfBATMQ= Received: by 10.142.213.9 with SMTP id l9mr3368655wfg.180.1202129969997; Mon, 04 Feb 2008 04:59:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.125.5 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 04:59:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0802040459r6e3684f9ta708dd5a2d83b591@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 07:59:29 -0500 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: More Progress / engine miss MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21693_12032096.1202129969890" X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2dcdf7f320e9c86d ------=_Part_21693_12032096.1202129969890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Don, Tell me a bit more about your engine miss. leave nothing out, details are important. Is it a steady miss or intermittent? Does it get worse at higher rpm? If so, is the onset of degradation sudden or gradual? If sudden, what is the threshold rpm and manifold pressure where it happens? Is the miss a simple drop-out of a power stroke or is it more violent like a backfire? Now that you have B running (correct?), have you done the coil disable tests and what were the results? Since it sounds like you can't run much over 2500 rpm it probably has nothing to do with something I tried that caused a sudden violent misfire/backfire at higher rpm (3900 - 4900). By mistake, I instaled the 1000 ohm resistor from the crank sensor hot lead to ground instead of across the two leads. This fixed the starting problem but caused the backfire. Not sure why copying A to B made B start working (I usually set both A & B to default) but Bob M. should try this as well. Maybe I forgot to set B to defaults? Tracy (need more data) > > On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 15:18:17 -0600 > "Don Walker" wrote: > > > I finally got the engine to start everytime, with Tracy's help > yesterday afternoon. You may remember that I am the one who couldn't get my > Renesis started. It just flooded. Finally sent the EC-2 back to Tracy and > he found a capacitor missing on the unit that has to be there for the > Renesis CAS. > > When I got it back, with much trouble I was able to get it started, but > it was hit and miss. Sometimes I would drain the battery a time or 2, foul > the plugs, but when it ran, it ran pretty well. Yesterday, after a couple > of weeks of screwing with this thing, I called Tracy again, discribing the > situation and trying my best to be professional. Tracy said that he found a > new "glitch". Seems that only on the Renesis, with the 2 wire CAS, when > starting, there is so much electrical noise from the starter and the > solenoids, that on SOME airplanes this noise scrambles the timing function > and it is all over the place. When it happened to scramble at the correct > timing, I could start it, and when the starter turned off, no noise and > the EC-2 would time correctly. Maddening! and that is being polite. It > would be interesting to find out how Tracy found the problem and tracked it > down and came up with a simple fix. Oh yeah. The fix! Went down to Radio > Shack, bought a 1000 Ohm resister, 1/2 watt, installed it across the wires > going to to the CAS. (I installed mine inside Bob's D sub connector) > > I pulled the plane out and it started on the 2nd blade! I charged > the battery some, turned it off and it started again, and again. Nice > feeling! Tracy of course will be the last word on this. Thanks again > Tracy! That's why we call it Experimental! The engine sounds like a car > and not too loud. Also, B controller wouldn't run. Copyed A to B and it > started running too. 3 or 4 shots of primer at 35 degrees. No cold start > switch. Mixture at 2:00. No primer when warm. > > As I mentioned, It's running pretty well, but there is a mis, and it > seems to be at all RPMs. I had it before the latest fix too. Obviously I > can't fly with it this way and the Auto tune function doesn't work because > the RPM is not steady enough above 2500 rpm. Any thoughts on why I have > this mis and what the solution might be? I assume that it is an ignition > problem rather than fuel, but my engine knowledge is pretty basic. Also, I > built my own intake manifold of 17.5 inches. Could this be part of it, > due to pressure waves, etc. One thing I haven't looked at is switching > the leading and trailing coils. I did it, to see if it would still run on > B controller, but not to see if the mis would stop. I didn'nt notice it > stopping if it did. Sure do like the heat from the automobile heater core. > I will be increasing the outlet eyeball size. > > Got rid of all my leaks. This is so nice! Running for a while at > 2600 rpm had 160 water and 165 oil @ 91 psi. I will be taking the fuel > system apart so I can drill and safety wire everything. Cool air ducted to > them. The Fuel pumps are very noisy and my ANR headsets don't cancel that > frequency out much. Are there quieter pumps out there? I will try to sound > deaden the back of the pump mount and the back of the fire wall. Flo-scan > fuel flow unit not working. EGTs not working. Love the mixture moniter > function. Filled the right tank for the first time and switched tanks. > Fuel pressure dropped to about 25 psi and then when back to 32 with out a > hick-up. I have the Sube fuel pinhole bypass. All for now. I look forward > to your thoughts. Someone out there knows about engine mis. > > > > Don Walker > > RV-8 Renesis > > N113 Bravo Romeo > > > -- > N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com > 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding > Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/cables/ > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > ------=_Part_21693_12032096.1202129969890 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Don,
  Tell me a bit more about your engine miss.  leave not= hing out, details are important.  
 
 Is it a steady miss or intermittent?  Does it get worse at = higher rpm?  If so, is the onset of degradation sudden or gradual?&nbs= p;  If sudden, what is the threshold rpm and manifold pressure where i= t happens?  Is the miss a simple drop-out of a power stroke or is it m= ore violent like a backfire?   Now that you have B running (corre= ct?), have you done the coil disable tests and what were the results?&= nbsp;  
 
Since it sounds like you can't run much over 2500 rpm it probably = has nothing to do with something I tried that caused a sudden violent misfi= re/backfire at higher rpm (3900 - 4900).  By mistake, I instaled = the 1000 ohm resistor from the crank sensor hot lead to ground instead of&n= bsp;across the two leads.  This fixed the starting problem but caused = the backfire. 
 
Not sure why copying A to B made B start working (I usually set b= oth A & B to default) but Bob M. should try this as well.  Ma= ybe I forgot to set B to defaults? 
 
Tracy  (need more data)
 
   

On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 15:18:17 = -0600
"Don Walker" <dr= walker@gbis.com> wrote:

>     I finally got the engine to start everytime, with Tr= acy's help yesterday afternoon.  You may remember that I am the on= e who couldn't get my Renesis started.  It just flooded.  Fin= ally sent the EC-2 back to Tracy and he found a capacitor missing on the un= it that has to be there for the Renesis CAS.
> When I got it back, with much trouble I was able to get it started, bu= t it was hit and miss.  Sometimes I would drain the battery a time or = 2, foul the plugs, but when it ran, it ran pretty well.  Yesterday, af= ter a couple of weeks of screwing with this thing, I called Tracy again, di= scribing the situation and trying my best to be professional.  Tracy s= aid that he found a new "glitch".  Seems that only on the Re= nesis, with the 2 wire CAS, when starting, there is so much electrical nois= e from the starter and the solenoids, that on SOME airplanes this noise scr= ambles the timing function and it is all over the place.  When it happ= ened to scramble at the correct  timing, I could start it, and when th= e  starter turned off, no noise and the EC-2 would time correctly. &nb= sp;Maddening! and that is being polite.   It would be interesting to f= ind out how Tracy found the problem and tracked it down and came up with a = simple fix.  Oh yeah.  The fix!  Went down to Radio Shack, b= ought a 1000 Ohm resister, 1/2 watt, installed it across the wires going to= to the CAS.  (I installed mine inside Bob's D sub connector)
>     I pulled the plane out and it started on the 2nd blade! =  I charged the battery some, turned it off and it started again, and a= gain.  Nice feeling!  Tracy of course will be the last word on th= is.  Thanks again Tracy!  That's why we call it Experimental!=  The engine sounds like a car and not too loud.  Also,  B c= ontroller wouldn't run.  Copyed A to B and it started running too.= 3 or 4 shots of primer at 35 degrees.  No cold start switch.  Mi= xture at 2:00.  No primer when warm.
>     As I mentioned, It's running pretty well, but there = is a mis, and it seems to be at all RPMs.  I had it before the latest = fix too.  Obviously I can't fly with it this way and the Auto tune= function doesn't work because the RPM is not steady enough above 2500 = rpm.   Any thoughts on why I have this mis and what the solution might= be?  I assume that it is an ignition problem rather than fuel, but my= engine knowledge is pretty basic.  Also, I built my own intake manifo= ld of 17.5 inches.  Could this be part of it, due to pressure waves, e= tc.   One thing I haven't looked at is switching  the leading= and trailing coils.   I did it, to see if it would still run on B con= troller, but not to see if the mis would stop.  I didn'nt notice i= t stopping if it did.  Sure do like the heat from the automobile heate= r core.  I will be increasing the outlet eyeball size.
>     Got rid of all my leaks.  This is so nice!  Ru= nning for a while at 2600 rpm had 160 water and 165 oil @ 91 psi.  I w= ill be taking the fuel system apart so I can drill and safety wire everythi= ng.  Cool air ducted to them.  The Fuel pumps are very noisy and = my ANR headsets don't cancel that frequency out much.  Are there q= uieter pumps out there?  I will try to sound deaden the back of the pu= mp mount and the back of the fire wall.  Flo-scan fuel flow unit not w= orking.  EGTs not working.  Love the mixture moniter function. &n= bsp;Filled the right tank for the first time and switched tanks.  Fuel= pressure dropped to about 25 psi and then when back to 32 with out a hick-= up.  I have the Sube fuel pinhole bypass.  All for now.  I l= ook forward to your thoughts.  Someone out there knows about engine mi= s.
>
> Don Walker
> RV-8 Renesis
> N113 Bravo Romeo

--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
3.8 Hours Total Time= and holding
Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/cables/

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/li= sts/flyrotary/List.html

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