X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from madison.lisco.com ([69.18.32.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c4) with ESMTP id 2681164 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 22:27:30 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.18.32.36; envelope-from=rob@mum.edu Received: from personnel10 (69-18-3-188.lisco.net [69.18.3.188]) by madison.lisco.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F5F9245CE4 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:26:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <005d01c85bdd$c23348a0$0601a8c0@personnel10> Reply-To: "Rob" From: "Rob" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B Startup Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:28:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01C85BAB.7747D270" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C85BAB.7747D270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lynn, could you tell us what oil filter you like. Robert BD-4 soon to have 20B ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lehanover@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 3:34 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B Startup In a message dated 1/20/2008 1:19:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, = keltro@att.net writes: To my surprise I could get 50 lbs of oil pressure with just the = starter! Did reveal on small oil leak around the banjo fitting that = feeds the redrive. I'll mount a temporary fuel tank today. Cant wait to = hear it (I think) Bob Mears Supermarine Spitfire I would expect to see the relief pressure cranking with the plugs out. = So, perhaps 71 PSI cranking.Might fall off quickly when cranking stops. Oil filters today (spinons) are proof that it is hard to escape your = history. In 1955 the oil filter was a paper or metal bound cartridge. It = had a little bail on top so you could hook onto it with a bit of wire = and pull it out of the thick walled steel canister that was held onto = the block with a long hollow bolt. This arrangement had a number of features. Every one of them bad. But = since everyone did it the same way, at least you knew what to expect = when changing filters Put a big pan under the canister and loosen the big bolt. Come back = in 2 hours, and most of the oil in the canister will have leaked past = the bolt seal, into the pan. Whack the canister back and fourth a few times with a mallet. Lower = the whole mess into the pan. Fish out the element with a piece of wire. Hang on to it a while to be = sure you have the correct replacement. Remove the long bolt. Recover the cardboard seal under the head of the = bolt. Even though a new seal comes in the box, it will leak. Only the = used one will seal. Clean up the few gallons of oil on the floor around the pan. Carry the 1/2 full bucket of gasoline way out back and scrub off the = pieces, particularly the canister. Assemble the clean pieces along with the boltand replacement element. = Install with a bit of grease on the threads. Note that the upper seal ring in the groove where the canister = pretends to seal against the block.It is nearly in two pieces = already.Now over tighten the big canister bolt so as to complete the job = of shearing the seal in two.No need to feel bad. it was going to leak = anyway.P.S.there is a new one in the box, but it will leak as well. So by now you are inventing the spin on filter element only weeks = behind the big three. And Shazam1956 and the spin on filter is here. Note that the oil flow in the canister is from the hole in the block = (Next to the oil pump)(Outside the element to inside the element and then up the hollow bolt into the oiling = galleriesinside the engine.And there is the key to oil flow around spin = on filter elements. Nothing changed.............................Now you throw the canister = away with the element left inside. You should cut open the can, and cut = the element loose from the end plates, then lay out the media on a new = piece of poster board, and inspect it under magnification and a strong = light.Look for bits of hose. sparkly metals silver and copper. But still nothing changed. Oil flow is always outside to inside though = the element. Same as 1955. So how can you get a zero pressure start up on a new engine? First let us suppose you reversed the pressure in and out hoses on the = remote filter mount.Next forget that nearly every element has an anti = drainback valve. Look through the little holes around the top of the can. inboard of = the sealing ring.See a black rubber flap? Why yes you do. That is the oil anti drainback valve.It is there to = keep oil in the can over long periods of time, where oil would run backwards out of the topand back into the sump. = This leads to a pump loosing its prime. And a dry start with bearing damage(And pump wear)Note here that many = manufacturers persist in mounting the spin ons in such ways as to = encourage this problem. Inverted or sideways. DO NOT PUNCH A HOLE IN = THE CAN TO LET AIR IN. MAZDA MECHANICS DO THIS. The hole lets in = paint chips, dirt and anything else, right into the center hole(runs = into the rear main gallery and the dowel gallery to the front main. So now there is no oil pressure because the rubber flap is closed over = the little holes as a one way valve, and nothing can get through the = can.No problem. Reconnect the hoses to establish outside in flow All is now well. = There you areGot all of that oil flow stuff, and it was free. Never = hesitate to pull a hose off and hang it in a clean coffee can. to = actually see if oil comes OUT of that hose I swear that I will never put a Fram filter in anything. I will never = give a Fram filter to anyone no matter how desperate they pretend to be. Lynn E. Hanover -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C85BAB.7747D270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lynn, could you tell us what oil filter you like.
 
Robert
BD-4 soon to have 20B
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lehanover@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 = 3:34=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B=20 Startup

In a message dated 1/20/2008 1:19:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, = keltro@att.net writes:
To my surprise I could get 50 lbs of oil pressure with just the = starter! Did reveal on small oil leak around the banjo fitting that = feeds=20 the redrive. I'll mount a temporary fuel tank today. Cant wait to = hear it (I=20 think)
 
Bob Mears
Supermarine Spitfire

I would expect to see the relief pressure cranking with the plugs = out.=20 So, perhaps 71 PSI cranking.Might fall off quickly when cranking = stops.
 
 
Oil filters today (spinons) are proof that it is hard to escape = your=20 history. In 1955 the oil filter was a paper or metal bound cartridge. = It had a=20 little bail on top so you could hook onto it with a bit of wire and = pull it=20 out of the thick walled steel canister that was held onto the block = with a=20 long hollow bolt.
 
This arrangement had a number of features. Every one of them bad. = But=20 since everyone did it the same way, at least you knew what to expect = when=20 changing filters
 
Put a big pan under the canister and loosen the big bolt.  = Come back=20 in 2 hours, and most of the oil in the canister will have leaked past = the bolt=20 seal, into the pan.
 
Whack the canister back and fourth a few times with a mallet. = Lower the=20 whole mess into the pan.
 
Fish out the element with a piece of wire. Hang on to it a = while to=20 be sure you have the correct replacement.
 
Remove the long bolt. Recover the cardboard seal under the head = of the=20 bolt. Even though a new seal comes in the box, it will leak. Only the = used one=20 will seal.
 
Clean up the few gallons of oil on the floor around the = pan.
 
Carry the 1/2 full bucket of gasoline way out back and scrub off = the=20 pieces, particularly the canister.
 
Assemble the clean pieces along with the boltand replacement = element.=20 Install with a bit of grease on the threads.
Note that the upper seal ring in the groove where the canister = pretends=20 to seal against the block.It is nearly in two pieces already.Now = over=20 tighten the big canister bolt so as to complete the job of shearing = the seal=20 in two.No need to feel bad. it was going to leak anyway.P.S.there is a = new one=20 in the box, but it will leak as well.
 
So by now you are inventing the spin on filter element only weeks = behind=20 the big three. And Shazam1956 and the spin on filter is here.
 
Note that the oil flow in the canister is from the hole in the = block=20 (Next to the oil pump)(Outside the element
to inside the element and then up the hollow bolt into the oiling = galleriesinside the engine.And there is the key to oil flow around = spin on=20 filter elements.
 
Nothing changed.............................Now you throw the = canister=20 away with the element left inside. You should cut open the can, and = cut the=20 element loose from the end plates, then lay out the media on a new = piece of=20 poster board, and inspect it under magnification and a strong = light.Look for=20 bits of hose. sparkly metals silver and copper.
 
But still nothing changed. Oil flow is always outside to inside = though=20 the element. Same as 1955.
 
So how can you get a zero pressure start up on a new = engine?
 
First let us suppose you reversed the pressure in and out hoses = on the=20 remote filter mount.Next forget that nearly every element has an anti=20 drainback valve.
 
Look through the little holes around the top of the can. inboard = of the=20 sealing ring.See a black rubber flap?
 
Why yes you do. That is the oil anti drainback valve.It is there = to keep=20 oil in the can over long periods of time,
where oil would run backwards out of the topand back into the = sump. This=20 leads to a pump loosing its prime.
And a dry start with bearing damage(And pump wear)Note here that = many=20 manufacturers persist in mounting the spin ons in such ways as to = encourage=20 this problem. Inverted or sideways.    DO NOT = PUNCH A HOLE=20 IN THE CAN TO LET AIR IN. MAZDA MECHANICS DO = THIS.    The=20 hole lets in paint chips, dirt and anything else, right into the = center=20 hole(runs into the rear main gallery and the dowel gallery to the = front=20 main.
 
So now there is no oil pressure because the rubber flap is closed = over=20 the little holes as a one way valve, and nothing can get through the = can.No=20 problem.
 
Reconnect the hoses to establish outside in flow All is now = well. =20 There you areGot all of that oil flow stuff, and it was free. Never = hesitate=20 to pull a hose off and hang it in a clean coffee can. to actually see = if oil=20 comes OUT of that hose
 
 
I swear that I will never put a Fram filter in anything. I will = never=20 give a Fram filter to anyone no matter how desperate they pretend to = be.
 
 
Lynn E. Hanover



Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.=20
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