X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.1] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c4) with ESMTP id 2680925 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:35:31 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.1; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id q.c80.1d6cf718 (42807) for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:34:43 -0500 (EST) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:34:42 EST Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B Startup To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1200864882" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5378 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1200864882 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/20/2008 1:19:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, keltro@att.net writes: To my surprise I could get 50 lbs of oil pressure with just the starter! Did reveal on small oil leak around the banjo fitting that feeds the redrive. I'll mount a temporary fuel tank today. Cant wait to hear it (I think) Bob Mears Supermarine Spitfire I would expect to see the relief pressure cranking with the plugs out. So, perhaps 71 PSI cranking.Might fall off quickly when cranking stops. Oil filters today (spinons) are proof that it is hard to escape your history. In 1955 the oil filter was a paper or metal bound cartridge. It had a little bail on top so you could hook onto it with a bit of wire and pull it out of the thick walled steel canister that was held onto the block with a long hollow bolt. This arrangement had a number of features. Every one of them bad. But since everyone did it the same way, at least you knew what to expect when changing filters Put a big pan under the canister and loosen the big bolt. Come back in 2 hours, and most of the oil in the canister will have leaked past the bolt seal, into the pan. Whack the canister back and fourth a few times with a mallet. Lower the whole mess into the pan. Fish out the element with a piece of wire. Hang on to it a while to be sure you have the correct replacement. Remove the long bolt. Recover the cardboard seal under the head of the bolt. Even though a new seal comes in the box, it will leak. Only the used one will seal. Clean up the few gallons of oil on the floor around the pan. Carry the 1/2 full bucket of gasoline way out back and scrub off the pieces, particularly the canister. Assemble the clean pieces along with the boltand replacement element. Install with a bit of grease on the threads. Note that the upper seal ring in the groove where the canister pretends to seal against the block.It is nearly in two pieces already.Now over tighten the big canister bolt so as to complete the job of shearing the seal in two.No need to feel bad. it was going to leak anyway.P.S.there is a new one in the box, but it will leak as well. So by now you are inventing the spin on filter element only weeks behind the big three. And Shazam1956 and the spin on filter is here. Note that the oil flow in the canister is from the hole in the block (Next to the oil pump)(Outside the element to inside the element and then up the hollow bolt into the oiling galleriesinside the engine.And there is the key to oil flow around spin on filter elements. Nothing changed.............................Now you throw the canister away with the element left inside. You should cut open the can, and cut the element loose from the end plates, then lay out the media on a new piece of poster board, and inspect it under magnification and a strong light.Look for bits of hose. sparkly metals silver and copper. But still nothing changed. Oil flow is always outside to inside though the element. Same as 1955. So how can you get a zero pressure start up on a new engine? First let us suppose you reversed the pressure in and out hoses on the remote filter mount.Next forget that nearly every element has an anti drainback valve. Look through the little holes around the top of the can. inboard of the sealing ring.See a black rubber flap? Why yes you do. That is the oil anti drainback valve.It is there to keep oil in the can over long periods of time, where oil would run backwards out of the topand back into the sump. This leads to a pump loosing its prime. And a dry start with bearing damage(And pump wear)Note here that many manufacturers persist in mounting the spin ons in such ways as to encourage this problem. Inverted or sideways. DO NOT PUNCH A HOLE IN THE CAN TO LET AIR IN. MAZDA MECHANICS DO THIS. The hole lets in paint chips, dirt and anything else, right into the center hole(runs into the rear main gallery and the dowel gallery to the front main. So now there is no oil pressure because the rubber flap is closed over the little holes as a one way valve, and nothing can get through the can.No problem. Reconnect the hoses to establish outside in flow All is now well. There you areGot all of that oil flow stuff, and it was free. Never hesitate to pull a hose off and hang it in a clean coffee can. to actually see if oil comes OUT of that hose I swear that I will never put a Fram filter in anything. I will never give a Fram filter to anyone no matter how desperate they pretend to be. Lynn E. Hanover **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 -------------------------------1200864882 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/20/2008 1:19:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 keltro@att.net writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
To my surprise I could get 50 lbs of oil pressure with just the start= er!=20 Did reveal on small oil leak around the banjo fitting that feeds the redri= ve.=20 I'll mount a temporary fuel tank today. Cant wait to hear it (I think)
 
Bob Mears
Supermarine Spitfire

I would expect to see the relief pressure cranking with the plugs out.=20= So,=20 perhaps 71 PSI cranking.Might fall off quickly when cranking stops.
 
 
Oil filters today (spinons) are proof that it is hard to escape your=20 history. In 1955 the oil filter was a paper or metal bound cartridge. It had= a=20 little bail on top so you could hook onto it with a bit of wire and pull it=20= out=20 of the thick walled steel canister that was held onto the block with a long=20 hollow bolt.
 
This arrangement had a number of features. Every one of them bad. But s= ince=20 everyone did it the same way, at least you knew what to expect when changing= =20 filters
 
Put a big pan under the canister and loosen the big bolt.  Come ba= ck=20 in 2 hours, and most of the oil in the canister will have leaked past the bo= lt=20 seal, into the pan.
 
Whack the canister back and fourth a few times with a mallet. Lower the= =20 whole mess into the pan.
 
Fish out the element with a piece of wire. Hang on to it a while t= o be=20 sure you have the correct replacement.
 
Remove the long bolt. Recover the cardboard seal under the head of the=20 bolt. Even though a new seal comes in the box, it will leak. Only the used o= ne=20 will seal.
 
Clean up the few gallons of oil on the floor around the pan.
 
Carry the 1/2 full bucket of gasoline way out back and scrub off the=20 pieces, particularly the canister.
 
Assemble the clean pieces along with the boltand replacement element.=20 Install with a bit of grease on the threads.
Note that the upper seal ring in the groove where the canister pretends= to=20 seal against the block.It is nearly in two pieces already.Now over tigh= ten=20 the big canister bolt so as to complete the job of shearing the seal in two.= No=20 need to feel bad. it was going to leak anyway.P.S.there is a new one in the=20= box,=20 but it will leak as well.
 
So by now you are inventing the spin on filter element only weeks behin= d=20 the big three. And Shazam1956 and the spin on filter is here.
 
Note that the oil flow in the canister is from the hole in the block (N= ext=20 to the oil pump)(Outside the element
to inside the element and then up the hollow bolt into the oiling=20 galleriesinside the engine.And there is the key to oil flow around spin on=20 filter elements.
 
Nothing changed.............................Now you throw the canister=20= away=20 with the element left inside. You should cut open the can, and cut the eleme= nt=20 loose from the end plates, then lay out the media on a new piece of poster=20 board, and inspect it under magnification and a strong light.Look for bits o= f=20 hose. sparkly metals silver and copper.
 
But still nothing changed. Oil flow is always outside to inside though=20= the=20 element. Same as 1955.
 
So how can you get a zero pressure start up on a new engine?
 
First let us suppose you reversed the pressure in and out hoses on the=20 remote filter mount.Next forget that nearly every element has an anti drainb= ack=20 valve.
 
Look through the little holes around the top of the can. inboard of the= =20 sealing ring.See a black rubber flap?
 
Why yes you do. That is the oil anti drainback valve.It is there to kee= p=20 oil in the can over long periods of time,
where oil would run backwards out of the topand back into the sump. Thi= s=20 leads to a pump loosing its prime.
And a dry start with bearing damage(And pump wear)Note here that many=20 manufacturers persist in mounting the spin ons in such ways as to encourage=20= this=20 problem. Inverted or sideways.    DO NOT PUNCH A HOLE IN= THE=20 CAN TO LET AIR IN. MAZDA MECHANICS DO THIS.    The hole=20= lets=20 in paint chips, dirt and anything else, right into the center hole(runs into= the=20 rear main gallery and the dowel gallery to the front main.
 
So now there is no oil pressure because the rubber flap is closed over=20= the=20 little holes as a one way valve, and nothing can get through the can.No=20 problem.
 
Reconnect the hoses to establish outside in flow All is now well. = =20 There you areGot all of that oil flow stuff, and it was free. Never hesitate= to=20 pull a hose off and hang it in a clean coffee can. to actually see if oil co= mes=20 OUT of that hose
 
 
I swear that I will never put a Fram filter in anything. I will never g= ive=20 a Fram filter to anyone no matter how desperate they pretend to be.
 
 
Lynn E. Hanover



Start= the year off right. Easy ways to stay in s= hape in the new year.
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