X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.235] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c4) with ESMTP id 2645128 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:46:11 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.184.235; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 70so728864wra.7 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:45:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=5ZWUM8mPxn8MDKaUD4r2UsvLK7ZYja1ZxM89lv3IrhE=; b=Z+cq2CoaCAqMBhMYoQrYr6RRMJV7YK0jX//7a+o7dTNPXiqz0No0/9Lyd0ru4VQiYhHg6qGaPf02V51NmHfD8MwmCFZUFAX34kZTO3kAeyuiEaJJyZa3/ZHeNbazGeurfT7LA80taVWB911dFnnwFI4N68spVHl7uq23qIcASdc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=KW5s8iOl/k0T3PC9xZaWe8UjZQlEn813lZvjs8pgziFfU37yKNEiBTC4ozoZmLA5TIjyd+3HAZhMwbl4tETGZrXZT0DwbVUC4PhzeHAoEH/YheHDi+jmDsrDeZ1ie5d3jz0p7vQUgjpYFeJNKiY/aelxHwsmDq7FEt9j51l8zhU= Received: by 10.150.57.5 with SMTP id f5mr2636360yba.71.1200347130148; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:45:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.178.14 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:45:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5cf132c0801141345w2a0eb61eqdb8bd4b4f192e4fc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:45:30 -0600 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4687_24249400.1200347130120" References: ------=_Part_4687_24249400.1200347130120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ed, Would that be anything like stuffing a turkey? Actually, being so close to the #1 exhaust, I have my doubts whether or not the HP-2, being made of 304ss, will survive. I guess I could put lake pipes down the sides. Seriously, I need to find a solution to the exhaust problem. I'm considering installing a turbo just to handle the heat and power pulses. Maybe I could copy Al G's exhaust system. Al, how's your exhaust holding up? Can you provide some more info on your exhaust? Materials, design, etc. Mark On 1/14/08, Ed Anderson wrote: > > Well, Mark, I tried that. Actually I tried both SS pot scrubbers as well > as SS machining shavings. They withstand the heat with no problem, but the > shock of the exhaust soon pound them into small pieces that get blown out of > the muffler. However, I did not tried stuffing a HushPower II. > > Ed > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, January 14, 2008 10:54 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower > > > Sorry to say, but I agree. I'm thinking of stuffing my HP-2 with SS > shavings. > > Mark > > > On 1/14/08, bmears9413@aol.com wrote: > > > > Im real worried about my noise factor. twelve pipes right in front of > > me. no muffler. each 1 1/2" exhaust pipe actually has a 3/4 hole to exhaust > > out of. im hoping that will quiet it a bit....but im pretty sure im full of > > crap....its gonna be toooooo loud. > > > > Bob Mears > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Steitle > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> > > Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 9:39 am > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower > > > > The problem with the auger muffler is that everyone said it sounded > > like a flying weed-eater. It was sometimes described as a flying chainsaw. > > Not the most flattering description. It wasn't "that" loud, but you could > > definitely hear me coming from miles out. Maybe that's a good thing? > > > > I guess we'll soon find out what the HP-2 sounds like with no packing. > > > > Mark > > > > > > On 1/14/08, bmears9413@aol.com < bmears9413@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > Mark, > > > I thought your spiral muffler you built was quiet. Did it turn out to > > > be too loud after you got in the air? Or too much back pressure? > > > > > > Bob Mears > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Mark Steitle > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> > > > Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 9:12 am > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower > > > > > > Ed, > > > I don't think it was doing this until after shutdown. That makes > > > sense as all the heat builds with no airflow over the muffler. It would > > > probably be wise to put a SS heat shield between the muffler and the > > > fuselage floor. (I had a piece of Zetex installed, but hadn't waited long > > > enough for the RTV to cure and it started coming off during flight. I will > > > try a fresh piece, and wait a little longer this time. > > > > > > You're probably right on 1 though 4. I suspect the packing material > > > to be fiberglass. I doubt that ceramic would melt that easily. > > > > > > Mark > > > Packing, I don't need no stink'in packing! > > > > > > > > > On 1/14/08, Ed Anderson wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Mark, interesting development. I suspect several reasons you > > > > may be the only one to notice. > > > > > > > > 1. It might be that the 3 rotor keeps the average muffler heat > > > > level higher as you have (approx 1/3 more heat energy with the third pulse > > > > during the same time interval). > > > > 2. Your muffler is pretty close to the exhaust port - less chance > > > > to lose heat before the muffler > > > > 3. Your muffler is pointed down (mine and I suspect most are > > > > more/less horizontal) and therefore provided an easy path for the melted > > > > packing to drip down. > > > > 4. What does the packing seem like? I would have expected glass or > > > > ceramic packing - but, a glass packing would be the more likely of the two > > > > to melt. > > > > > > > > > > > > If this is the insulation packing and it goes, then the shell > > > > might get a bit hotter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > *From:* Mark Steitle > > > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2008 5:58 PM > > > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower > > > > > > > > > > > > For rotorheads that are contemplating using (also the mildly > > > > curious) the Flowmaster HP-2 "resonator" muffler, > > > > > > > > I installed the HP-2 today on my 20B and was able to do a run-up. > > > > Bobby Hughes and I both agree that the exhaust tone is much, much mellower > > > > with a deeper tone. My Lighspeed ANR headset had no problem cancelling out > > > > this low-frequency exhaust tone. While the overall sound level was still > > > > pretty significant, the exhaust tone was much more pleasant to the ears. > > > > The ear-piercing, glass shattering, nails-on-the-chalkboard, > > > > make-you-bleed-from-the-ears, exhaust tone is totally tamed. The 3-blade > > > > M/T prop is the primary noisemaker now. The test took place between two > > > > rows of hangars, so I feel that DB readings are not very realistic. I'll > > > > take those again out on the ramp and post the numbers. If the HP-2 holds up > > > > to the pounding of the rotary's exhaust, I'll be a very happy camper. > > > > > > > > Mark S. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 12, 2008 3:22 PM, Ed Anderson > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > They are both used stock Rx-7 turbos. one is the older model pre > > > > > 89 and the second is a later model 91 year. They both appear to be in > > > > > working condition in no nicks on the blades and they spin. I used > > > > > compressed air to spin the compressor wheels to they were really whizzing > > > > > along. > > > > > > > > > > One came with my 91 turbo block and the other was given to me. > > > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > *From:* Thomas Jakits > > > > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2008 3:46 PM > > > > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, > > > > > > > > > > then we just have to keep on looking for a "justification" for > > > > > you/your area/etc. :) > > > > > > > > > > Just wait, I'll find something! :) > > > > > > > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > How about: "..... I have two turbo sitting in my shop......." > > > > > > > > > > ...are they new/used? What's the scoop on them? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > -- > > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > Archive and UnSub: > > > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > > > ! > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail > > ! > > > > > > ------=_Part_4687_24249400.1200347130120 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Ed,
 
Would that be anything like stuffing a turkey?  Actually, being so close to the #1 exhaust, I have my doubts whether or not the HP-2, being made of 304ss, will survive.  I guess I could put lake pipes down the sides.
 
Seriously, I need to find a solution to the exhaust problem.  I'm considering installing a turbo just to handle the heat and power pulses. 
 
Maybe I could copy Al G's exhaust system.  Al, how's your exhaust holding up?  Can you provide some more info on your exhaust?  Materials, design, etc. 
 
Mark

 
On 1/14/08, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Well, Mark, I tried that.  Actually I tried both SS pot scrubbers as well as SS machining shavings.  They withstand the heat with no problem, but the shock of the exhaust soon pound them into small pieces that get blown out of the muffler.  However, I did not tried stuffing a HushPower II.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:54 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

 
Sorry to say, but I agree.  I'm thinking of stuffing my HP-2 with SS shavings. 
 
Mark

 
On 1/14/08, bmears9413@aol.com < bmears9413@aol.com> wrote:
Im real worried about my noise factor. twelve pipes right in front of me. no muffler. each 1 1/2" exhaust pipe actually has a 3/4 hole to exhaust out of. im hoping that will quiet it a bit....but im pretty sure im full of crap....its gonna be toooooo loud.

Bob Mears


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 9:39 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

The problem with the auger muffler is that everyone said it sounded like a flying weed-eater.  It was sometimes described as a flying chainsaw.  Not the most flattering description.  It wasn't "that" loud, but you could definitely hear me coming from miles out.  Maybe that's a good thing? 
 
I guess we'll soon find out what the HP-2 sounds like with no packing. 
 
Mark

 
On 1/14/08, bmears9413@aol.com < bmears9413@aol.com> wrote:
Mark,
I thought your spiral muffler you built was quiet. Did it turn out to be too loud after you got in the air? Or too much back pressure?

Bob Mears


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 9:12 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

Ed,
I don't think it was doing this until after shutdown.  That makes sense as all the heat builds with no airflow over the muffler.  It would probably be wise to put a SS heat shield between the muffler and the fuselage floor.  (I had a piece of Zetex installed, but hadn't waited long enough for the RTV to cure and it started coming off during flight.  I will try a fresh piece, and wait a little longer this time. 
 
You're probably right on 1 though 4.  I suspect the packing material to be fiberglass.  I doubt that ceramic would melt that easily. 
 
Mark
Packing, I don't need no stink'in packing!

 
On 1/14/08, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com > wrote:
Hi Mark, interesting development.  I suspect several reasons you may be the only one to notice.
 
1.  It might be that the 3 rotor keeps the average muffler heat level higher as you have (approx 1/3 more heat energy with the third pulse during the same time interval).
2.  Your muffler is pretty close to the exhaust port - less chance to lose heat before the muffler
3.  Your muffler is pointed down (mine and I suspect most are more/less horizontal) and therefore provided an easy path for the melted packing to drip down.
4.  What does the packing seem like?  I would have expected glass or ceramic packing - but, a glass packing would be the more likely of the two to melt.
 
 
  If this is the insulation packing and it goes, then the shell might get a bit hotter.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 5:58 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

 
For rotorheads that are contemplating using (also the mildly curious) the Flowmaster HP-2 "resonator" muffler,

I installed the HP-2 today on my 20B and was able to do a run-up.  Bobby Hughes and I both agree that the exhaust tone is much, much mellower with a deeper tone.  My Lighspeed ANR headset had no problem cancelling out this low-frequency exhaust tone.  While the overall sound level was still pretty significant, the exhaust tone was much more pleasant to the ears.  The ear-piercing, glass shattering, nails-on-the-chalkboard, make-you-bleed-from-the-ears, exhaust tone is totally tamed.  The 3-blade M/T prop is the primary noisemaker now.  The test took place between two rows of hangars, so I feel that DB readings are not very realistic.  I'll take those again out on the ramp and post the numbers.  If the HP-2 holds up to the pounding of the rotary's exhaust, I'll be a very happy camper.

Mark S.



On Jan 12, 2008 3:22 PM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
They are both used stock Rx-7 turbos.  one is the older model pre 89  and the second is a later model 91 year.  They both appear to be in working condition in no nicks on the blades and they spin.  I used compressed air to spin the compressor wheels to they were really whizzing along.
 
One came with my 91 turbo block and the other was given to me.
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 3:46 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

 
Well,

then we just have to keep on looking for a "justification" for you/your area/etc. :)

Just wait, I'll find something! :)

Thomas

How about: "..... I have two turbo sitting in my shop......." 

...are they new/used? What's the scoop on them?


 
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
 

 
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
 


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