X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.6] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c4) with ESMTP id 2645044 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:07:27 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.6; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id q.c70.22530a3d (37541) for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:06:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail-nf16 (webmail-nf16.sim.aol.com [207.200.67.80]) by cia-mb02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB022-92a5478bcedcd7; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:06:37 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:06:37 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 65.161.241.3 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: wrjjrs@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CA25087C27A359_C3C_774C_webmail-nf16.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33706-STANDARD Received: from 65.161.241.3 by webmail-nf16.sysops.aol.com (207.200.67.80) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:06:36 -0500 Message-Id: <8CA25087C27A359-C3C-3C05@webmail-nf16.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO ----------MB_8CA25087C27A359_C3C_774C_webmail-nf16.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Ed, one mistake many people make with the Supertrapp is to run too many disk= s. I used a 3-1/2" version inside a standard exhaust on a highly modified Ka= wasaki Z1. (900cc) The engine was bored to 1075cc, cammed, ported, big valve= s, and high compression. On this engine=C2=A0I was able to run 5-6 disks. It= strained a lot of peoples minds as it looked like the pipe was=C2=A0closed=20= up! I calculated the exit area though and it was the equivalent of 2" straig= ht pipe. Remember this is on the 3-1/2"=C2=A0version. This bike ran mid 10's= in the quarter mile in 1976. That works out to around 150 HP using on of th= e dragstrip calculators I've seen. The large car version=C2=A0(5") has a=C2= =A0LOT more exit. I believe most people=C2=A0use too many disks when running= the Supertrapp. This results in more noise than there should be with=C2=A0N= O increase in performance.=C2=A0Now if the system will hold up to the pulses= ,=C2=A0I'm not sure there. The thing is with the Supertrapp you must be sure= you don't over tighten the disk mount screws or the disks will collapse=C2= =A0and won't work right. (The old units used to have a center rod with a spr= ing on it to prevent overtightening.) Lastly you MUST MUST MUST safetywire t= he bolts/capscrews or you will lose them. I suggest at least .040 in. safety= wire.=C2=A0FWIW I do believe this system has merit and can work. Protect th= e belly though since the exhaust exits all 360=C2=B0! Bill Jepson=C2=A0 -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:26 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower Bob, I have a friend (not on the list) who tried them with a 13B on his Glas= Star and his opinion was that they did not stand up to the rotary exhaust po= unding and did not reduce the noise sufficient to justify the cost.=C2=A0 He= now flies with a SpinTech =C2=A0 Ed=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: bmears9413@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower Has anyone tried a supertrap muffler? I ran them back in my motorcycle racin= g days and was impressed with ther perfrmance and the hush factor. http://www.supertrapp.com/product_sections/detail.asp?CatID=3D32&ItemID=3D54= 9-3019 Bob Mears Supermarine Spitfire -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 2:05 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower Well, Mark, I tried that.=C2=A0 Actually I tried both SS pot scrubbers as we= ll as SS machining shavings.=C2=A0 They withstand the heat with no problem,=20= but the shock of the exhaust soon pound them into small pieces that get blow= n out of the muffler.=C2=A0 However, I did not tried stuffing a HushPower II= . =C2=A0 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower Sorry to say, but I agree.=C2=A0 I'm thinking of stuffing my HP-2 with SS sh= avings.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 Mark =C2=A0 On 1/14/08, bmears9413@aol.com wrote:=20 Im real worried about my noise factor. twelve pipes right in front of me. no= muffler. each 1 1/2" exhaust pipe actually has a 3/4 hole to exhaust out of= . im hoping that will quiet it a bit....but im pretty sure im full of crap..= ..its gonna be toooooo loud.=20 Bob Mears -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 9:39 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower=20 The problem with the auger muffler is that everyone said it sounded like a f= lying weed-eater.=C2=A0 It was sometimes described as a flying chainsaw.=C2= =A0 Not the most flattering description.=C2=A0 It wasn't "that" loud, but yo= u could definitely hear me coming from miles out.=C2=A0 Maybe that's a good=20= thing?=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 I guess we'll=C2=A0soon find out=C2=A0what the HP-2 sounds like with no pack= ing.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 Mark =C2=A0 On 1/14/08, bmears9413@aol.com < bmears9413@aol.com> wrote:=20 Mark, I thought your spiral muffler you built was quiet. Did it turn out to be too= loud after you got in the air? Or too much back pressure?=20 Bob Mears -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 9:12 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower=20 Ed,=20 I don't think it was doing this until after shutdown.=C2=A0 That makes sense= as all the heat builds with no airflow over the muffler.=C2=A0 It would pro= bably be wise to put a SS heat shield between the muffler and the fuselage f= loor.=C2=A0 (I had a piece of Zetex installed, but hadn't waited long enough= for the RTV to cure and it started coming off during flight.=C2=A0 I will t= ry a fresh piece, and wait a little longer this time.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 You're probably right on 1 though 4.=C2=A0 I suspect the packing material to= be fiberglass.=C2=A0 I doubt that ceramic would melt that easily.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 Mark Packing, I don't need no stink'in packing! =C2=A0 On 1/14/08, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Hi Mark, interesting development.=C2=A0 I suspect=C2=A0several reasons you m= ay be the only one to notice. =C2=A0 1.=C2=A0 It might be that the 3 rotor keeps the average muffler heat level h= igher as you have (approx 1/3 more heat energy with the third pulse during t= he same time interval). 2.=C2=A0 Your muffler is pretty close to the exhaust port - less chance to l= ose heat before the muffler 3.=C2=A0 Your muffler is pointed down (mine and I suspect most are more/less= horizontal) and therefore provided an easy path for the melted packing to d= rip down. 4.=C2=A0 What does the packing seem like?=C2=A0 I would have expected glass=20= or ceramic packing - but, a glass packing would be the more likely of the tw= o to melt. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0If this is the insulation packing and it goes, then the shell mi= ght get a bit hotter. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 5:58 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower =C2=A0 For rotorheads that are contemplating using (also the mildly curious) the Fl= owmaster HP-2 "resonator" muffler, I installed the HP-2 today on my 20B and was able to do a run-up.=C2=A0 Bobb= y Hughes and I both agree that the exhaust tone is much, much mellower with=20= a deeper tone.=C2=A0 My Lighspeed ANR headset had no problem cancelling out=20= this low-frequency exhaust tone.=C2=A0 While the overall sound level was sti= ll pretty significant, the exhaust tone was much more pleasant to the ears.= =C2=A0 The ear-piercing, glass shattering, nails-on-the-chalkboard, make-you= -bleed-from-the-ears, exhaust tone is totally tamed.=C2=A0 The 3-blade M/T p= rop is the primary noisemaker now.=C2=A0 The test took place between two row= s of hangars, so I feel that DB readings are not very realistic.=C2=A0 I'll=20= take those again out on the ramp and post the numbers.=C2=A0 If the HP-2 hol= ds up to the pounding of the rotary's exhaust, I'll be a very happy camper.=20 Mark S. On Jan 12, 2008 3:22 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 They are both used stock Rx-7 turbos.=C2=A0 one is the older model pre 89= =C2=A0 and the second is a later model 91 year.=C2=A0 They both appear to be= in working condition in no nicks on the blades and they spin.=C2=A0 I used=20= compressed air to spin the compressor wheels to they were really whizzing al= ong.=20 =C2=A0 One came with my 91 turbo block and the other was given to me.=20 =C2=A0 Ed =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thomas Jakits=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 3:46 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower =C2=A0 Well, then we just have to keep on looking for a "justification" for you/your area= /etc. :) Just wait, I'll find something! :) Thomas How about: "..... I have two turbo sitting in my shop......."=C2=A0=20 ...are they new/used? What's the scoop on them? -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrot= ary/List.html =C2=A0 More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! =C2=A0 =C2=A0 More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! =C2=A0 More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.= aol.com ----------MB_8CA25087C27A359_C3C_774C_webmail-nf16.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Ed, one mistake many people make with the Supertrapp is to run too many= disks. I used a 3-1/2" version inside a standard exhaust on a highly modifi= ed Kawasaki Z1. (900cc) The engine was bored to 1075cc, cammed, ported, big=20= valves, and high compression. On this engine I was able to run 5-6 disk= s. It strained a lot of peoples minds as it looked like the pipe was cl= osed up! I calculated the exit area though and it was the equivalent of 2" s= traight pipe. Remember this is on the 3-1/2" version. This bike ran mid= 10's in the quarter mile in 1976. That works out to around 150 HP using on=20= of the dragstrip calculators I've seen. The large car version (5") has=20= a LOT more exit. I believe most people use too many disks when run= ning the Supertrapp. This results in more noise than there should be with&nb= sp;NO increase in performance. Now if the system will hold up to the pu= lses, I'm not sure there. The thing is with the Supertrapp you must be=20= sure you don't over tighten the disk mount screws or the disks will collapse=  and won't work right. (The old units used to have a center rod with a=20= spring on it to prevent overtightening.) Lastly you MUST MUST MUST safetywir= e the bolts/capscrews or you will lose them. I suggest at least .040 in. saf= ety wire. FWIW I do believe this system has merit and can work. Protect= the belly though since the exhaust exits all 360=C2=B0!
Bill Jepson 


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:26 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

Bob, I have a friend (not on the list) who tried the= m with a 13B on his GlasStar and his opinion was that they did not stand up=20= to the rotary exhaust pounding and did not reduce the noise sufficient to ju= stify the cost.  He now flies with a SpinTech
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:20 P= M
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [= FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

Has anyone tried a supertrap muffler? I ran them back in my motorcycle racin= g days and was impressed with ther perfrmance and the hush factor.
http://www.supertrapp.com/product_sec= tions/detail.asp?CatID=3D32&ItemID=3D549-3019

Bob Mears
Supermarine Spitfire


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson= @carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 2:05 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

Well, Mark, I tried that.  Actually I tried bot= h SS pot scrubbers as well as SS machining shavings.  They withstand th= e heat with no problem, but the shock of the exhaust soon pound them into sm= all pieces that get blown out of the muffler.  However, I did not tried= stuffing a HushPower II.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:54=20= AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [= FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

Sorry to say, but I agree.  I'm thinking of stuffing my HP-2 with=20= SS shavings. 
 
Mark

 
On 1/14/08, bmears9413@aol.com <bmears9413@aol.com> wrote:=20
Im real worried about my noise facto= r. twelve pipes right in front of me. no muffler. each 1 1/2" exhaust pipe a= ctually has a 3/4 hole to exhaust out of. im hoping that will quiet it a bit= ....but im pretty sure im full of crap....its gonna be toooooo loud.

Bob Mears


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.= com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 9:39 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

The problem with the auger muffler is that everyone said it sounded lik= e a flying weed-eater.  It was sometimes described as a flying chainsaw= .  Not the most flattering description.  It wasn't "that" loud, bu= t you could definitely hear me coming from miles out.  Maybe that's a g= ood thing? 
 
I guess we'll soon find out what the HP-2 sounds like with no= packing. 
 
Mark

 
On 1/14/08, bmears9413@aol.com < bmears9413@aol.com> wrote:=20
Mark,
I thought your spiral muffler you built was quiet. Did it turn out to be too= loud after you got in the air? Or too much back pressure?

Bob Mears


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.= com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 9:12 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Drips? was [FlyRotary] Re: URL for HushPower

Ed,
I don't think it was doing this until after shutdown.  That makes=20= sense as all the heat builds with no airflow over the muffler.  It woul= d probably be wise to put a SS heat shield between the muffler and the fusel= age floor.  (I had a piece of Zetex installed, but hadn't waited long e= nough for the RTV to cure and it started coming off during flight.  I w= ill try a fresh piece, and wait a little longer this time. 
 
You're probably right on 1 though 4.  I suspect the packing materi= al to be fiberglass.  I doubt that ceramic would melt that easily. = ;
 
Mark
Packing, I don't need no stink'in packing!

 
On 1/14/08, Ed An= derson <eanderson@caroli= na.rr.com > wrote:=20
Hi Mark, interesting development.  I suspect&nb= sp;several reasons you may be the only one to notice.
 
1.  It might be that the 3 rotor keeps the aver= age muffler heat level higher as you have (approx 1/3 more heat energy with=20= the third pulse during the same time interval).
2.  Your muffler is pretty close to the exhaust= port - less chance to lose heat before the muffler
3.  Your muffler is pointed down (mine and I su= spect most are more/less horizontal) and therefore provided an easy path for= the melted packing to drip down.
4.  What does the packing seem like?  I wo= uld have expected glass or ceramic packing - but, a glass packing would be t= he more likely of the two to melt.
 
 
  If this is the insulation packing and it= goes, then the shell might get a bit hotter.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Steitle
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 5:58= PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: URL for Hush= Power

 
For rotorheads that are contemplating using (also the mildly curious) the Fl= owmaster HP-2 "resonator" muffler,

I installed the HP-2 today on my 20B and was able to do a run-up.  Bobb= y Hughes and I both agree that the exhaust tone is much, much mellower with=20= a deeper tone.  My Lighspeed ANR headset had no problem cancelling out=20= this low-frequency exhaust tone.  While the overall sound level was sti= ll pretty significant, the exhaust tone was much more pleasant to the ears.&= nbsp; The ear-piercing, glass shattering, nails-on-the-chalkboard, make-you-= bleed-from-the-ears, exhaust tone is totally tamed.  The 3-blade M/T pr= op is the primary noisemaker now.  The test took place between two rows= of hangars, so I feel that DB readings are not very realistic.  I'll t= ake those again out on the ramp and post the numbers.  If the HP-2 hold= s up to the pounding of the rotary's exhaust, I'll be a very happy camper. <= br>
Mark S.



On Jan 12, 2008 3:22 PM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrot= e:
They are both used stock Rx-7 turbos.  one is t= he older model pre 89  and the second is a later model 91 year.  T= hey both appear to be in working condition in no nicks on the blades and the= y spin.  I used compressed air to spin the compressor wheels to they we= re really whizzing along.
 
One came with my 91 turbo block and the other was gi= ven to me.
 
Ed
 
 
From: Thomas Jakits
Rotary motors in aircraft

Just wait, I'll find something! :)

Thomas

How about: "..... I have two turbo sitting in my shop....= ..." 

...are they new/used? What's the scoop on them?


 
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