X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTP id 2333846 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 16 Sep 2007 08:46:59 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([24.74.103.61]) by cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20070916124622.XFPH3972.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:46:22 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c7f85f$ab341fd0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 08:46:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7F83E.23E6D660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7F83E.23E6D660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I think I can take partial credit by saying something {:>) was = causing the reluctor/hall effect sensor to trigger at the wrong time or = perhaps twice as often. The ferrous 4130 would certainly cause the = sensor to trigger erratically by interfering with the magnetic field of = magnet. But, must admit - that would be a hard one to find. Ed =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:56 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys Ok, look all right on the oscilloscope within the range and setting = that you would expect to look at/with - implies that you found something = outside of that range. So some sort of sporadic signal occurring at a = higher/lower periodicity (I would pick higher) than expected. I am = not familiar with the Renesis CS pickup but could it have been something = causing the reluctor(hall effect?) sensor to trigger at the wrong time = or perhaps twice as often??? Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 2:39 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys I can't give away the answer but I can tell you it was not obvious = when looking at the signal with an oscilloscope. At least not in the = range and setting used to trigger the CAS signal.=20 Bobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:54 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys Ed,=20 You are getting closer when you stated that it must be erratic = ignition. (I wish I had someone to give me hints). Yes, the ignition = timing was too far advanced, but retarding the timing didn't correct the = problem. The coils are LS1 units, 6 ea, so any individual coil isn't = firing any more often than on a 2-rotor. So, what's causing the erratic = ingition? That's the question.=20 Mark =20 On 9/15/07, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Hey, No Fair! Mark. Most of us do not have a Renesis shop = manual. But, lets see the old CS had three wires, the new one has two = wires - I get it - there is a wire missing {:>). So it sounds like the problem was indeed ignition - well, its = almost always either fuel or spark causing a problem. So if fuel is = more or less ruled out it defaults to ignition. It probably wouldn't be = a rev limiter as they simply cut out above a certain rpm. So either = your ignition timing somehow was off at higher rpm (too much advance?) = or else your ignition was erratic in its firing (such as exceeding the = capability of the coils to recharge between firings - unlikely in this = case).=20 But, without a shop manual to give me more insight, I must say I'm = out of ideas. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:52 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys =20 Now Rusty!!! That's too obvious. ;-) OK, another hint... I got a hint of what might be causing my = problem from the ignition section of the Renesis shop manual. =20 Mark=20 =20 On 9/14/07, Russell Duffy wrote:=20 OK, I'll give you a hint... it was related to my decision to = change over from the original CAS to the Renesis CAS. I got that bright = idea from last year's rotary get together at Tracy's. =20 I've got it. YOU were the problem :-)=20 Rusty=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7F83E.23E6D660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, I think I can take partial credit by = saying=20 something {:>) was causing the reluctor/hall effect sensor to = trigger at=20 the wrong time or perhaps twice as often.  The ferrous 4130 would = certainly=20 cause the sensor to trigger erratically by interfering with the magnetic = field=20 of magnet.
 
But, must admit - that would be a hard one to=20 find.
 
Ed 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Saturday, September 15, = 2007 1:56=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One = for the=20 smart guys

Ok, look all right on the oscilloscope within = the range=20 and setting that you would expect to look at/with - implies that you = found=20 something outside of that range.  So some sort of sporadic signal = occurring at a higher/lower  periodicity (I would pick higher) =  than=20 expected.   I am not familiar with the Renesis CS pickup but = could=20 it have been something causing the reluctor(hall effect?) sensor to = trigger at=20 the wrong time or perhaps twice as often???
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bobby = J. Hughes=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Saturday, September 15, = 2007 2:39=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One = for the=20 smart guys

I can't give away the answer but I can tell = you it=20 was not obvious when looking at the signal with an oscilloscope. At = least=20 not in the range and setting used to trigger the CAS signal.=20
 
Bobby
 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark=20 Steitle
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:54 = AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for = the=20 smart guys

Ed,
You are getting closer when you stated that it must be erratic=20 ignition.  (I wish I had someone to give me hints).  Yes, = the=20 ignition timing was too far advanced, but retarding the timing = didn't=20 correct the problem.  The coils are LS1 units, 6 ea, = so any=20 individual coil isn't firing any more often than on a = 2-rotor. =20 So, what's causing the erratic ingition?  That's the question. =
 
Mark

 
On 9/15/07, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:=20
Hey, No Fair! Mark.   Most = of us do=20 not have a Renesis shop manual.  But, lets see the old CS had = three=20 wires, the new one has two wires - I get it - there is a wire = missing=20 {:>).
 
  So it sounds like the = problem was=20  indeed ignition - well, its almost always either fuel or = spark=20 causing a problem.  So if fuel is more or less ruled out it = defaults=20 to ignition.  It probably wouldn't be a rev limiter as they = simply=20 cut out above a certain rpm.  So either your ignition timing = somehow=20 was off at higher rpm (too much advance?)  or else your = ignition was=20 erratic in its firing (such as exceeding the capability of the = coils to=20 recharge between firings - unlikely in this case).
 
But, without a shop manual to give me more = insight,=20 I must say I'm out of ideas.
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From: Mark = Steitle
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Friday, September = 14, 2007=20 10:52 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = One for=20 the smart guys

 
Now Rusty!!!  That's too obvious.  ;-)
 
OK, another hint... I got a hint of what might be causing = my=20 problem from the ignition section of the Renesis shop = manual. =20
 
Mark

 
On 9/14/07, Russell Duffy <rusty@radrotary.com=20 > wrote:=20
OK, I'll give you a hint... it was related to my = decision to=20 change over from the original CAS to the Renesis = CAS.  I got=20 that bright idea from last year's rotary get together at=20 Tracy's.  =20  
 
I've got = it.  YOU were=20 the problem :-) 
 
Rusty=20 =


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