X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTP id 2333306 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:07:27 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([24.74.103.61]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20070916020650.YEOA4058.cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2007 02:06:50 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c7f806$533e42f0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:07:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7F7E4.CBDB9CC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7F7E4.CBDB9CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, the only remaining thing I can think of - is you did not have the = plug wires firmly inserted into their sockets requiring the spark to = jump two (or more gaps) before getting to the spark plug. At higher rpm = the lessening dwell time for the coils did not permit them to build up = adequate voltage to jump the gaps every firing pulse. There! Going to bed {:>) Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 8:23 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys Dennis,=20 Nope, part of the conversion was to install the stock Renesis timing = gear. The problem has been fixed and the Renesis gear is still there. = Just in case you're wondering, the timing gear wasn't installed = backwards nor was it clocked incorrectly. =20 Mark On 9/15/07, Dennis Haverlah wrote: Mark, Was the frequency of the teeth going by the wheel too high for the = CAS? Dennis H. Mark Steitle wrote: Bob,=20 While good things to check, neither of these were the cause of my = problem. At Tracy's suggestion, I changed the air gap on the CAS to no = avail. =20 Mark=20 On 9/15/07, bmears9413@aol.com wrote:=20 I haven't cheated and looked at the manual.....since your gonna = tell us anyway...eventually...but problems I've had before in race = cars...plug wires running parallel to each other, and too large of air = gap in the pickup in the distributor. Close???=20 Bob Mears Supermarine Spitfire -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 7:53 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys Ed,=20 You are getting closer when you stated that it must be erratic = ignition. (I wish I had someone to give me hints). Yes, the ignition = timing was too far advanced, but retarding the timing didn't correct the = problem. The coils are LS1 units, 6 ea, so any individual coil isn't = firing any more often than on a 2-rotor. So, what's causing the erratic = ingition? That's the question.=20 Mark =20 On 9/15/07, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Hey, No Fair! Mark. Most of us do not have a Renesis shop = manual. But, lets see the old CS had three wires, the new one has two = wires - I get it - there is a wire missing {:>). So it sounds like the problem was indeed ignition - well, = its almost always either fuel or spark causing a problem. So if fuel is = more or less ruled out it defaults to ignition. It probably wouldn't be = a rev limiter as they simply cut out above a certain rpm. So either = your ignition timing somehow was off at higher rpm (too much advance?) = or else your ignition was erratic in its firing (such as exceeding the = capability of the coils to recharge between firings - unlikely in this = case).=20 But, without a shop manual to give me more insight, I must say = I'm out of ideas. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:52 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys=20 =20 Now Rusty!!! That's too obvious. ;-) OK, another hint... I got a hint of what might be causing my = problem from the ignition section of the Renesis shop manual. =20 Mark=20 =20 On 9/14/07, Russell Duffy wrote:=20 OK, I'll give you a hint... it was related to my decision = to change over from the original CAS to the Renesis CAS. I got that = bright idea from last year's rotary get together at Tracy's. =20 I've got it. YOU were the problem :-)=20 Rusty=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL = Mail! ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7F7E4.CBDB9CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK, the only remaining thing I can think of - is = you did=20 not have the plug wires firmly inserted into their sockets requiring the = spark=20 to jump two (or more gaps) before getting to the spark plug.  At = higher rpm=20 the lessening dwell time for the coils did not permit them to build up = adequate=20 voltage to jump the gaps every firing pulse.
 
There!  Going to bed {:>)
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Saturday, September 15, = 2007 8:23=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One = for the=20 smart guys

Dennis,

Nope, part of the conversion was to = install the=20 stock Renesis timing gear.  The problem has been fixed and the = Renesis=20 gear is still there.  Just in case you're wondering, the timing = gear=20 wasn't installed backwards nor was it clocked incorrectly.  =20

Mark

On 9/15/07, Dennis=20 Haverlah <clouduster@austin.rr.com>= =20 wrote:
Mark,
 Was the = frequency of=20 the teeth going by the wheel too high for the CAS?

Dennis=20 H.

Mark Steitle wrote:
Bob,=20

While good things to check, neither of these were the = cause of my=20 problem.  At Tracy's suggestion, I changed the air gap on the = CAS to=20 no avail. 

Mark

On 9/15/07, bmears9413@aol.com=20 <bmears9413@aol.com>=20 wrote:=20
I=20 haven't cheated and looked at the manual.....since your gonna = tell us=20 anyway...eventually...but problems I've had before in race = cars...plug=20 wires running parallel to each other, and too large of air gap = in the=20 pickup in the distributor.   Close???

Bob=20 Mears
Supermarine Spitfire


-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in=20 aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Sat, 15 Sep=20 2007 7:53 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart = guys

Ed,
You are getting closer when you stated that it must be = erratic=20 ignition.  (I wish I had someone to give me hints).  = Yes, the=20 ignition timing was too far advanced, but retarding the timing = didn't=20 correct the problem.  The coils are LS1 units, 6 ea, = so any=20 individual coil isn't firing any more often than on a=20 2-rotor.  So, what's causing the erratic ingition?  = That's the=20 question.
 
Mark

 
On 9/15/07, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com > wrote: =
Hey, No Fair! Mark.  =  Most of us=20 do not have a Renesis shop manual.  But, lets see the old = CS had=20 three wires, the new one has two wires - I get it - there is a = wire=20 missing {:>).
 
  So it sounds like the = problem was=20  indeed ignition - well, its almost always either fuel or = spark=20 causing a problem.  So if fuel is more or less ruled out = it=20 defaults to ignition.  It probably wouldn't be a rev = limiter as=20 they simply cut out above a certain rpm.  So either your = ignition=20 timing somehow was off at higher rpm (too much advance?)  = or else=20 your ignition was erratic in its firing (such as exceeding the = capability of the coils to recharge between firings - unlikely = in this=20 case).
 
But, without a shop manual to give me = more=20 insight, I must say I'm out of ideas.
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
To:=20 Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Sent:=20 Friday, September 14, 2007 10:52 PM
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys

 
Now Rusty!!!  That's too obvious.  ;-)
 
OK, another hint... I got a hint of what might be = causing my=20 problem from the ignition section of the Renesis shop=20 manual. 
 
Mark

 
On 9/14/07, Russell Duffy <rusty@radrotary.com=20 > wrote:=20
OK, I'll give you a hint... it was related to my = decision to change over from the original CAS to the = Renesis=20 CAS.  I got that bright idea from last year's rotary = get=20 together at Tracy's.    
 
I've got = it.  YOU=20 were the problem :-) 
 
Rusty=20 =


Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL=20 = Mail!


------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7F7E4.CBDB9CC0--