X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTP id 2332809 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:56:29 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([24.74.103.61]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20070915175551.SXWR3980.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Sat, 15 Sep 2007 17:55:51 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c7f7c1$bbdf9790$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:56:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C7F7A0.34900430" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C7F7A0.34900430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, look all right on the oscilloscope within the range and setting that = you would expect to look at/with - implies that you found something = outside of that range. So some sort of sporadic signal occurring at a = higher/lower periodicity (I would pick higher) than expected. I am = not familiar with the Renesis CS pickup but could it have been something = causing the reluctor(hall effect?) sensor to trigger at the wrong time = or perhaps twice as often??? Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 2:39 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys I can't give away the answer but I can tell you it was not obvious = when looking at the signal with an oscilloscope. At least not in the = range and setting used to trigger the CAS signal.=20 Bobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:54 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys Ed,=20 You are getting closer when you stated that it must be erratic = ignition. (I wish I had someone to give me hints). Yes, the ignition = timing was too far advanced, but retarding the timing didn't correct the = problem. The coils are LS1 units, 6 ea, so any individual coil isn't = firing any more often than on a 2-rotor. So, what's causing the erratic = ingition? That's the question.=20 Mark =20 On 9/15/07, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Hey, No Fair! Mark. Most of us do not have a Renesis shop manual. = But, lets see the old CS had three wires, the new one has two wires - I = get it - there is a wire missing {:>). So it sounds like the problem was indeed ignition - well, its = almost always either fuel or spark causing a problem. So if fuel is = more or less ruled out it defaults to ignition. It probably wouldn't be = a rev limiter as they simply cut out above a certain rpm. So either = your ignition timing somehow was off at higher rpm (too much advance?) = or else your ignition was erratic in its firing (such as exceeding the = capability of the coils to recharge between firings - unlikely in this = case).=20 But, without a shop manual to give me more insight, I must say I'm = out of ideas. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:52 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for the smart guys =20 Now Rusty!!! That's too obvious. ;-) OK, another hint... I got a hint of what might be causing my = problem from the ignition section of the Renesis shop manual. =20 Mark=20 =20 On 9/14/07, Russell Duffy wrote:=20 OK, I'll give you a hint... it was related to my decision to = change over from the original CAS to the Renesis CAS. I got that bright = idea from last year's rotary get together at Tracy's. =20 I've got it. YOU were the problem :-)=20 Rusty=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C7F7A0.34900430 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, look all right on the oscilloscope within = the range=20 and setting that you would expect to look at/with - implies that you = found=20 something outside of that range.  So some sort of sporadic signal = occurring=20 at a higher/lower  periodicity (I would pick higher)  than=20 expected.   I am not familiar with the Renesis CS pickup but = could it=20 have been something causing the reluctor(hall effect?) sensor to trigger = at the=20 wrong time or perhaps twice as often???
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bobby J. = Hughes=20
Sent: Saturday, September 15, = 2007 2:39=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One = for the=20 smart guys

I can't give away the answer but I can tell = you it=20 was not obvious when looking at the signal with an oscilloscope. At = least not=20 in the range and setting used to trigger the CAS signal. =
 
Bobby
 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark=20 Steitle
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:54 = AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One for = the smart=20 guys

Ed,
You are getting closer when you stated that it must be erratic=20 ignition.  (I wish I had someone to give me hints).  Yes, = the=20 ignition timing was too far advanced, but retarding the timing didn't = correct=20 the problem.  The coils are LS1 units, 6 ea, so any = individual coil=20 isn't firing any more often than on a 2-rotor.  So, what's = causing=20 the erratic ingition?  That's the question.
 
Mark

 
On 9/15/07, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:=20
Hey, No Fair! Mark.   Most of = us do not=20 have a Renesis shop manual.  But, lets see the old CS had three = wires,=20 the new one has two wires - I get it - there is a wire missing=20 {:>).
 
  So it sounds like the = problem was=20  indeed ignition - well, its almost always either fuel or spark = causing=20 a problem.  So if fuel is more or less ruled out it defaults to = ignition.  It probably wouldn't be a rev limiter as they simply = cut out=20 above a certain rpm.  So either your ignition timing somehow = was off at=20 higher rpm (too much advance?)  or else your ignition was = erratic in=20 its firing (such as exceeding the capability of the coils to = recharge=20 between firings - unlikely in this case).
 
But, without a shop manual to give me more = insight, I=20 must say I'm out of ideas.
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From: = Mark = Steitle
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Friday, September 14, = 2007=20 10:52 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = One for the=20 smart guys

 
Now Rusty!!!  That's too obvious.  ;-)
 
OK, another hint... I got a hint of what might be causing my = problem=20 from the ignition section of the Renesis shop manual.  =
 
Mark

 
On 9/14/07, Russell=20 Duffy <rusty@radrotary.com=20 > wrote:=20
OK, I'll give you a hint... it was related to my = decision to=20 change over from the original CAS to the Renesis CAS.  = I got=20 that bright idea from last year's rotary get together at=20 Tracy's.  =20  
 
I've got it.  = YOU were=20 the problem :-) 
 
Rusty=20 =


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