X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 73 [XX] (45%) BODY: contains "ambien" obfuscated (23%) URL: contains host with port number (12%) BODY: contains stock spam words (-21%) URL: weird port adjustment Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.69] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2018066 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:20:17 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.69; envelope-from=jerryhey@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=orY+1EtYbITtmqavEbWyAjcmWYT/pSXMGQjFQMM0buGqV4Elk8oPxmKcQ2lbwCK8; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [71.54.80.210] (helo=[192.168.0.101]) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HibPB-0005sd-I1 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:19:26 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4--62409641 Message-Id: <013A7C11-B25A-4C01-B8CC-4B2C5337710D@earthlink.net> From: Jerry Hey Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Throttle body size/ other "Paul" issues Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:19:29 -0400 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-ELNK-Trace: 8104856d7830ec6b1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec793a22cb4e6e5ddcb3f66641707e44d193350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.54.80.210 --Apple-Mail-4--62409641 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed RE: Paul Issues: I can't overstate how disappointed I am that things have taken another downturn. I am not here to defend Paul. I don't understand his behavior. As many know, Paul and I have worked together on S-beam engine mounts and he has been extremely valuable to me and to all who want this type of engine mount. It is not possible to square his helpfulness given in terms of hundreds of hours of drawings given freely, with his slash and burn attacks on those who do not agree with his opinions. I have so much respect and admiration for Tracy and what he has accomplished and the fine controllers and drives he has engineered and produced without which we would be no where. I just want to make that clear. Kind regards to all, Jerry On Apr 30, 2007, at 10:18 AM, Tracy Crook wrote: > I doubt that a larger TB will do any better Buly. That's about the > same size I have on my Renesis engine and it is very well matched. > Several other builders have installed monster sized TBs on Paul's > advice and found no improvement and in some cases less power. > Contrary to his usual philosophy, bigger is not necessarily better. > > Here's a simple test you can do to remove the 'opinion factor' > out of this discussion. If your manifold pressure at WOT is the > same as ambient barometric pressure (at low altitude), there is > nothing a larger TB will do to improve it. If MP is less than > ambient, start looking at your intake path factors like inlet, SCAT > tubing (if used), air filter, and anything else in the air path. > If none of these are the limiting factor, then and only then should > you think about going to a larger TB. > > I'm using a 70mm TB on my 20B which I think is about the minimum > size for the 300 HP I expect. It should give good linear throttle > response without the "dead travel" of an overly large TB. I'm > betting it will pass the MP test mentioned above although I haven't > had a chance to test it in flight yet. > > On another topic, Paul has been spreading the story that the EC2 > will not work with a CS or variable pitch prop. After hearing > this, one builder immediately put his EC2 up for sale without even > asking me if this were true. That's incredible to me but a > testament to the blind faith that some people put in Paul's > opinion. Simply put, Paul's claim is pure nonsense. > > The same applies to his warning to never use anything but Mazda > factory apex seals, a thinly veiled negative reference to the "RA > Seals" that Bruce Turrentine and I collaborated on. (Full > disclosure: Bruce did the major part in their development, I merely > offered advice from time to time). > > After years of listening to Paul's claim that my cooling system is > not suitable, marginal at best, will not work out west where there > are mountains, etc, etc, I declined his offer to market his new > book "How to Cool Your Wankel". Much of it is valid data from a > number of sources but I simply do not agree with his conclusions on > how to apply it. I expect an up-tic in his vitriol : ) > > Tracy Crook > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bulent Aliev > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 6:05 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Throttle body size > > I originally planned and tried TA set up on my Cosmo 13B. Soon after > the first few flights removed the turbo and vent NA. At the time did > not pay much attention on the throttle body size, counting on the > turbo to make up for any losses. Today I measured the inside opening > of the TB and was surprised to find it was only 60mm. This is rather > small. Paul Lamar on his visit also said I should get a bigger one. I > wander what size TB other people are using, or any comments and > suggestions on the matter will be helpful. > > Buly > > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/ > flyrotary/List.html > --Apple-Mail-4--62409641 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 RE: Paul Issues:=A0 I can't = overstate how disappointed I am that things have taken another = downturn.=A0 I am not here to defend Paul.=A0 I don't understand his = behavior.=A0

=A0As = many know, Paul and I have worked together on S-beam engine mounts and = he has been extremely=A0 valuable to me and to all who want this type of = engine mount. =A0 It is not possible to square his helpfulness given in = terms of hundreds of hours of drawings given freely, with his slash and = burn attacks on those who do not agree with his = opinions.=A0=A0

I have so much respect and = admiration for Tracy and what he has accomplished and the fine = controllers and drives=A0 he has engineered and produced without which = we would be no where.=A0

I just want to make that = clear.=A0 =A0Kind regards to all,=A0 =A0Jerry







=A0=A0

=A0=A0






On Apr 30, = 2007, at 10:18 AM, Tracy Crook wrote:

I doubt that a larger TB will do any better Buly.=A0 That's = about the same size I have on my Renesis engine and it is very well = matched.=A0 Several other builders have installed monster sized TBs on = Paul's advice and found no improvement and in some cases less power.=A0=A0= Contrary to his usual philosophy, bigger is not necessarily = better.=A0
=A0
=A0=A0 Here's a simple test you can do to remove the = 'opinion factor' out of this discussion.=A0 If your manifold pressure at = WOT is the same as ambient barometric pressure (at low altitude), there = is nothing a larger TB will do to improve=A0it.=A0 If MP is less than = ambient, start looking at your intake path factors like inlet, SCAT = tubing (if used), air filter, and anything else in the air path.=A0 If = none of these are the limiting factor, then and only then should you = think about going to a larger TB.
I'm using a 70mm TB on my 20B which I = think is about the minimum size for the 300 HP I expect.=A0 It should = give good linear throttle response without the "dead travel" of an = overly large TB.=A0 I'm betting it will pass the MP test mentioned above = although I haven't had a chance to test it in flight = yet.
=A0
On another topic, Paul has been spreading the story that = the EC2 will not work with a CS or variable pitch prop.=A0=A0 After = hearing this, one builder immediately put his EC2 up for sale without = even asking me if this were true.=A0 That's incredible to me but = a=A0testament to the blind faith that some people put in Paul's = opinion.=A0=A0 Simply put, Paul's claim is pure = nonsense.=A0
=A0
The same applies to his=A0warning to never use anything but = Mazda factory apex seals, a thinly veiled negative reference to the "RA = Seals" that Bruce Turrentine and I collaborated on.=A0 (Full disclosure: = Bruce did the major part in their development, I merely offered advice = from time to time).=A0
After years of listening to Paul's = claim that my cooling system is not suitable, marginal at best, will not = work out west where there are mountains, etc, etc,=A0 =A0I declined his = offer to market his new book "How to Cool Your Wankel".=A0 Much of it is = valid data from a number of sources but I simply do not agree with=A0his = conclusions on how to apply it.=A0=A0I expect an up-tic in his vitriol : = )
=A0
Tracy = Crook
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 6:05 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Throttle body size

I originally planned and tried TA set up on my Cosmo 13B. = Soon after=A0
the first few flights removed the turbo = and vent NA. At the time did=A0
not pay much = attention on the throttle body size, counting on the=A0
turbo to make up for any losses. Today I measured the = inside opening=A0
of the TB and was surprised to find it = was only 60mm. This is rather=A0
small. Paul Lamar = on his visit also said I should get a bigger one. I=A0
wander what size TB other people are using, or any comments = and=A0
suggestions on the matter will be = helpful.
Buly




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Homepage:=A0 Archive and = UnSub:=A0=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

= --Apple-Mail-4--62409641--