X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 80 [XXX] (41%) BODY: contains "ambien" obfuscated (21%) URL: contains host with port number (11%) HEADERS: mail has MS Outlook properties but missing "Outlook" in "X-Mailer" Headers (11%) BODY: contains stock spam words (-19%) URL: weird port adjustment Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc2-s31.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.246.167] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2017593 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:20:04 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.246.167; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.250.89]) by bay0-omc2-s31.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:19:01 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:19:01 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 4.171.150.138 by BAY115-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:18:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.171.150.138] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Throttle body size/ other "Paul" issues Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:18:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0082_01C78B10.F4352650" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:18:53 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2007 14:19:01.0549 (UTC) FILETIME=[80007DD0:01C78B32] Return-Path: lors01@msn.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C78B10.F4352650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I doubt that a larger TB will do any better Buly. That's about the same = size I have on my Renesis engine and it is very well matched. Several = other builders have installed monster sized TBs on Paul's advice and = found no improvement and in some cases less power. Contrary to his = usual philosophy, bigger is not necessarily better.=20 Here's a simple test you can do to remove the 'opinion factor' out of = this discussion. If your manifold pressure at WOT is the same as = ambient barometric pressure (at low altitude), there is nothing a larger = TB will do to improve it. If MP is less than ambient, start looking at = your intake path factors like inlet, SCAT tubing (if used), air filter, = and anything else in the air path. If none of these are the limiting = factor, then and only then should you think about going to a larger TB. I'm using a 70mm TB on my 20B which I think is about the minimum size = for the 300 HP I expect. It should give good linear throttle response = without the "dead travel" of an overly large TB. I'm betting it will = pass the MP test mentioned above although I haven't had a chance to test = it in flight yet. On another topic, Paul has been spreading the story that the EC2 will = not work with a CS or variable pitch prop. After hearing this, one = builder immediately put his EC2 up for sale without even asking me if = this were true. That's incredible to me but a testament to the blind = faith that some people put in Paul's opinion. Simply put, Paul's claim = is pure nonsense. =20 The same applies to his warning to never use anything but Mazda factory = apex seals, a thinly veiled negative reference to the "RA Seals" that = Bruce Turrentine and I collaborated on. (Full disclosure: Bruce did the = major part in their development, I merely offered advice from time to = time). =20 After years of listening to Paul's claim that my cooling system is not = suitable, marginal at best, will not work out west where there are = mountains, etc, etc, I declined his offer to market his new book "How = to Cool Your Wankel". Much of it is valid data from a number of sources = but I simply do not agree with his conclusions on how to apply it. I = expect an up-tic in his vitriol : ) Tracy Crook ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bulent Aliev=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 6:05 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Throttle body size I originally planned and tried TA set up on my Cosmo 13B. Soon after =20 the first few flights removed the turbo and vent NA. At the time did =20 not pay much attention on the throttle body size, counting on the =20 turbo to make up for any losses. Today I measured the inside opening =20 of the TB and was surprised to find it was only 60mm. This is rather =20 small. Paul Lamar on his visit also said I should get a bigger one. I = wander what size TB other people are using, or any comments and =20 suggestions on the matter will be helpful. Buly -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C78B10.F4352650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I doubt that a larger TB will do any better Buly.  That's = about the=20 same size I have on my Renesis engine and it is very well matched.  = Several=20 other builders have installed monster sized TBs on Paul's advice and = found no=20 improvement and in some cases less power.   Contrary to his = usual=20 philosophy, bigger is not necessarily better. 
 
   Here's a simple test you can do to remove the 'opinion = factor'=20 out of this discussion.  If your manifold pressure at WOT is the = same as=20 ambient barometric pressure (at low altitude), there is nothing a larger = TB will=20 do to improve it.  If MP is less than ambient, start looking = at your=20 intake path factors like inlet, SCAT tubing (if used), air filter, and = anything=20 else in the air path.  If none of these are the limiting factor, = then and=20 only then should you think about going to a larger TB.
 
I'm using a 70mm TB on my 20B which I think is about the minimum = size for=20 the 300 HP I expect.  It should give good linear throttle response = without=20 the "dead travel" of an overly large TB.  I'm betting it will pass = the MP=20 test mentioned above although I haven't had a chance to test it in = flight=20 yet.
 
On another topic, Paul has been spreading the story that the EC2 = will not=20 work with a CS or variable pitch prop.   After hearing this, = one=20 builder immediately put his EC2 up for sale without even asking me if = this were=20 true.  That's incredible to me but a testament to the blind = faith that=20 some people put in Paul's opinion.   Simply put, Paul's claim = is pure=20 nonsense. 
 
The same applies to his warning to never use anything but = Mazda=20 factory apex seals, a thinly veiled negative reference to the "RA Seals" = that=20 Bruce Turrentine and I collaborated on.  (Full disclosure: Bruce = did the=20 major part in their development, I merely offered advice from time to=20 time). 
 
After years of listening to Paul's claim that my cooling system is = not=20 suitable, marginal at best, will not work out west where there are = mountains,=20 etc, etc,   I declined his offer to market his new book "How = to Cool=20 Your Wankel".  Much of it is valid data from a number of sources = but I=20 simply do not agree with his conclusions on how to apply = it.  I=20 expect an up-tic in his vitriol : )
 
Tracy Crook
----- Original Message -----
From: Bulent Aliev
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 = 6:05=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Throttle = body=20 size

I originally planned and tried TA set up on my Cosmo = 13B. Soon=20 after 
the first few flights removed the turbo and vent NA. = At the=20 time did 
not pay much attention on the throttle body size, = counting=20 on the 
turbo to make up for any losses. Today I measured the = inside=20 opening 
of the TB and was surprised to find it was only = 60mm. This=20 is rather 
small. Paul Lamar on his visit also said I should = get a=20 bigger one. I 
wander what size TB other people are using, or = any=20 comments and 
suggestions on the matter will be=20 helpful.

Buly





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