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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 08:46:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael LaFleur <mike.lafleur@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: A solution?  Injector flow rate mystery solved
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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The diode should have a clamp voltage of about 60 volts. This pulls the ene=
rgy out of the coil as fast as possible without getting too expensive. (Hig=
her than 60 volts  means a more expensive manufacturing process)=0A=0AMike =
LaFleur=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox=
.net>=0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=0ASent:=
 Monday, March 12, 2007 11:33:28 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: A solution? =
 Injector flow rate mystery solved=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A<!--=
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 {font-family:Nimrod;=0Apanose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 1 2 2 4;}=0A/* Style Definitio=
ns */=0A p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal=0A=09{margin:0in;=0Amargi=
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om:.0001pt;=0Afont-size:10.0pt;=0Afont-family:"Courier New";}=0Aspan.EmailS=
tyle19=0A=09{font-family:Verdana;=0Acolor:blue;=0Afont-weight:normal;=0Afon=
t-style:normal;=0Atext-decoration:none none;}=0A _filtered {=0Amargin:1.0in=
 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}=0Adiv.Section1=0A=09{}=0A-->=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASub=
ject: [FlyRotary]=0ARe: A solution? was : The truth??? / Injector flow rate=
 mystery solved=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AWhat about MOV's?  Typical=0Atransi=
ent response time measured in nanoseconds...=0A=0A=0A=0A   <Marv>   =0A=0A=
=0AMy expert, who has designed ECUs for=0Aother applications, had the follo=
wing comments that may be of interest:=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AAs far as the ECU =
goes, the diodes=0Ashould be replaced with =0A=0A=0Atranzorbs or zeners of =
about 30=0Avolts.  I don't think a pull down resistor =0A=0A=0Aof 1K as sug=
gested will do=0Aanything at all.  It should be roughly 8 times =0A=0A=0Ath=
e injector resistance (assuming=0Athe injector hold current is less than 8 =
=0A=0A=0Atimes the pull-in current -- typically=0Ait's between 4 and 6).  A=
nd if you =0A=0A=0Awant a true peak and hold injector=0Adriver, then the Na=
tional LM1949 is the =0A=0A=0Away to go.=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AThe resistor onl=
y makes =0A=0A=0Asense at very high RPMs, probably=0Ahigher than what the e=
ngine can do, so I =0A=0A=0Aconsider it optional.  The=0Arelay contacts are=
 not the issue.  The issue is =0A=0A=0Aprotecting the drive transistor=0Awh=
ich will fail at voltages lower than what =0A=0A=0Awill cause an arc in the=
 relay=0A(not to mention RF noise).  The other issue =0A=0A=0Ais minimizing=
 the current flow as=0Athe magnetic field collapses.=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AAs p=
reviously mentioned, the =91correct=92=0Away to drive a high flow rate inje=
ctor is using a =0A=0A=0Apeak and hold circuit.=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AFWIW;=0A=
=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AAl G=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:garamond,new york,times,serif;font-size:=
12pt"><div style=3D"font-family: garamond,new york,times,serif; font-size: =
12pt;">The diode should have a clamp voltage of about 60 volts. This pulls =
the energy out of the coil as fast as possible without getting too expensiv=
e. (Higher than 60 volts&nbsp; means a more expensive manufacturing process=
)<br><br>Mike LaFleur<br><br><div style=3D"font-family: times new roman,new=
 york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">----- Original Message ----<br>From: A=
l Gietzen &lt;ALVentures@cox.net&gt;<br>To: Rotary motors in aircraft &lt;f=
lyrotary@lancaironline.net&gt;<br>Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:33:28 AM<=
br>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: A solution?  Injector flow rate mystery solved<=
br><br>=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A<style>=0A<!--=0A _filtered {font-family:T=
ahoma;=0Apanose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}=0A _filtered {font-family:Verdana;=
=0Apanose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}=0A _filtered {font-family:Nimrod;=0Apano=
se-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 1 2 2 4;}=0A/* Style Definitions */=0A p.MsoNormal, li.Mso=
Normal, div.MsoNormal=0A=09{margin:0in;=0Amargin-bottom:.0001pt;=0Afont-siz=
e:12.0pt;=0Afont-family:"Times New Roman";}=0Aa:link, span.MsoHyperlink=0A=
=09{color:blue;=0Atext-decoration:underline;}=0Aa:visited, span.MsoHyperlin=
kFollowed=0A=09{color:purple;=0Atext-decoration:underline;}=0Ap=0A=09{margi=
n-right:0in;=0Amargin-left:0in;=0Afont-size:12.0pt;=0Afont-family:"Times Ne=
w Roman";}=0Apre=0A=09{margin:0in;=0Amargin-bottom:.0001pt;=0Afont-size:10.=
0pt;=0Afont-family:"Courier New";}=0Aspan.EmailStyle19=0A=09{font-family:Ve=
rdana;=0Acolor:blue;=0Afont-weight:normal;=0Afont-style:normal;=0Atext-deco=
ration:none none;}=0A _filtered {=0Amargin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}=0Adi=
v.Section1=0A=09{}=0A-->=0A</style>=0A=0A=0A=0A<div class=3D"Section1">=0A=
=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><font face=3D"Ta=
homa" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-=
weight: bold;">Subject:</span></font></b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><=
span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> [FlyRotary]=0ARe: A s=
olution? was : The truth??? / Injector flow rate mystery solved</span></fon=
t></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face=
=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">&nbsp;</sp=
an></font></p>=0A=0A<div id=3D"_htmlarea_default_style_">=0A=0A<p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">What about MOV's?&nbsp; =
Typical=0Atransient response time measured in nanoseconds...<br>=0A<br>=0A&=
nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Marv&gt; &nbsp; </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><font color=3D"blue" face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11pt; font-family: Verdana; color: blue;">My expert, who has designed E=
CUs for=0Aother applications, had the following comments that may be of int=
erest:</span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"blue" f=
ace=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Ver=
dana; color: blue;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D""><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Verdana;">As far as the ECU goes, the diodes=0Ashould be repla=
ced with </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font fa=
ce=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Verd=
ana;">tranzorbs or zeners of about 30=0Avolts.&nbsp; I don't think a pull d=
own resistor </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><fon=
t face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Verdana;">of 1K as suggested will do=0Aanything at all.&nbsp; It should be =
roughly 8 times </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><=
font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-famil=
y: Verdana;">the injector resistance (assuming=0Athe injector hold current =
is less than 8 </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><f=
ont face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family=
: Verdana;">times the pull-in current -- typically=0Ait's between 4 and 6).=
&nbsp; And if you </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""=
><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fam=
ily: Verdana;">want a true peak and hold injector=0Adriver, then the Nation=
al LM1949 is the </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=
=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Verdan=
a;">way to go.</span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"=
Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Verdana;">=
&nbsp;</span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font face=
=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Verdan=
a;">The resistor only makes </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D""><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt=
; font-family: Verdana;">sense at very high RPMs, probably=0Ahigher than wh=
at the engine can do, so I </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D""><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;=
 font-family: Verdana;">consider it optional.&nbsp; The=0Arelay contacts ar=
e not the issue.&nbsp; The issue is </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D""><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11pt; font-family: Verdana;">protecting the drive transistor=0Awhich wi=
ll fail at voltages lower than what </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D""><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11pt; font-family: Verdana;">will cause an arc in the relay=0A(not to m=
ention RF noise).&nbsp; The other issue </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D=
"MsoNormal" style=3D""><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size: 11pt; font-family: Verdana;">is minimizing the current flow as=0Ath=
e magnetic field collapses.</span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D""><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;=
 font-family: Verdana;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D""><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11=
pt; font-family: Verdana;">As previously mentioned, the =91correct=92=0Away=
 to drive a high flow rate injector is using a </span></font></p>=0A=0A<p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11pt; font-family: Verdana;">peak and hold circuit.</span></font></p>=
=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Verdana;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>=0A=0A<=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"blue" face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Verdana; color: blue;">FWIW;</span=
></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"blue" face=3D"Verda=
na" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Verdana; color:=
 blue;">&nbsp;</span></font></p>=0A=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D=
"blue" face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fam=
ily: Verdana; color: blue;">Al G</span></font></p>=0A=0A</div>=0A=0A<pre st=
yle=3D"margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color=3D"blue" face=3D"Courier New" size=
=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; color: blue;">&nbsp;</span></font></=
pre></div>=0A=0A</div><br></div></div></body></html>
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