X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 64 [XX] (67%) BODY: contains text similar to "low payment" (33%) URL: contains host with port number Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.101] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.7) with ESMTP id 1917615 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:32:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.101; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l2D0VpoE010712 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001801c76507$034553c0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: MOV fail closed? was A solution? was : The truth??? / Injector flow rate mystery solved Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:31:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C764E5.7BE03C90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C764E5.7BE03C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, Joe Get better and worry only about getting that project done . You and everyone is certainly welcome to state their viewpoint on = this list - don't know of anyone banned as yet. While all viewpoints = are subject to debate and counter arguments - that's the value of this = list.=20 More than one viewpoint gets presented and no one arbitrarily decides = when there has been sufficient discussion - but us guys on the list. = When we get tired of it - no one is going to comment further and you end = up debating with yourself. But, that's about the extent of anyone = getting "banned".=20 So never hesitate to throw in your 0.02, it may be the one that saves = somebody's butt - I was not aware that a MOV could fail closed - I = thought once the magic smoke went that it did no more conducting (or = anything else) but opened up. =20 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe Ewen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:12 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: A solution? was : The truth??? / Injector = flow rate mystery solved My original thoughts regarding a dropping resistor were the result of = being bored while lying in bed with a 102 degree fever, otherwise I = would have likely been working on my airplane. In the end, I believe = Tracy is likely the best person to devise the ultimate solution. But in = fairness to Tracy, he seems to be a rather busy person juggling his = manufacturing, airplane building, technical support, and product = development may not leave much time to work on this particular issue. = So I threw my 2 cents into the ring. My first though was an RC circuit, = but thought it may not be a reasonable solution due to its Time/Decay = rates. Last point I would like to make is anyone considering using a MOV = "Please read the following info:"=20 http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/04_b/04_b_brown.htm Like any solid state device an MOV is subject to degradation (quickly = if the power through it is greater than its heat dissipation capacity). = Further, unlike many other solid state devices that fail in the off = state when they loose their internal smoke - a MOV can fail in the ON = state. Sincerely, Joe (Hoping I have not offended anyone, or be banned from FlyRotary = like so many others have been from the other list.) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: marv@lancair.net=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:30 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: A solution? was : The truth??? / Injector = flow rate mystery solved What about MOV's? Typical transient response time measured in = nanoseconds... =20 "Steven Boese" wrote: Ed and Joe, The diode in the EC2 allows the current from the collapse of the injector magnetic field to flow to the positive supply rail (~14V); = it doesn't oppose this. A resistor allowing this current to flow would also result in a close delay since the current flowing is what = maintains the magnetic field during this delay. What is needed is a way to decrease the rate of voltage rise just after the EC2 pulse ends so arcing in the A/B selection relay is suppressed. After the relay contacts open enough that an arc is no longer possible (which = shouldn't take long) an open circuit condition now would allow the injector to close quickly. The arcing may or may not be a problem any given tim = Ed =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C764E5.7BE03C90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey, Joe
 
Get better and worry only about getting that = project=20 done
 
. You and  everyone is certainly = welcome to=20 state their  viewpoint on this list - don't know of anyone banned = as=20 yet.  While all viewpoints are subject to debate and counter = arguments -=20 that's the value of this list. 
 
 More than one viewpoint gets presented and = no one=20 arbitrarily decides when there has been sufficient discussion - but us = guys on=20 the list.  When we get tired of it - no one is going to comment = further and=20 you end up debating with yourself.  But, that's about the extent of = anyone=20 getting "banned". 
 
 So never hesitate to throw in your 0.02, = it may be=20 the one that saves somebody's butt - I was not aware that a MOV could = fail=20 closed - I thought once the magic smoke went that it did no more = conducting (or=20 anything else) but opened up. 
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Joe = Ewen=20
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 = 5:12=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: A = solution? was=20 : The truth??? / Injector flow rate mystery solved

My original thoughts regarding a = dropping=20 resistor were the result of being bored while lying in bed with a = 102=20 degree fever, otherwise I would have likely been working on my = airplane. =20 In the end, I believe Tracy is likely the best person to devise the = ultimate=20 solution.  But in fairness to Tracy, he seems to be a rather busy = person=20 juggling his manufacturing, airplane building, technical support, and = product=20 development may not leave much time to work on this particular = issue.  So=20 I threw my 2 cents into the ring.  My first though was an RC = circuit, but=20 thought it may not be a reasonable solution due to its Time/Decay=20 rates.
 
Last point I would like to make is = anyone=20 considering using a MOV "Please read the=20 following info:" 
http= ://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/04_b/04_b_brown.htm
 
Like any solid state device an MOV is = subject to=20 degradation (quickly if the power through it is greater than its heat=20 dissipation capacity).  Further, unlike many other solid state = devices=20 that fail in the off state when they loose their internal smoke = -  a MOV=20 can fail in the ON state.
 
Sincerely,
Joe (Hoping I have not offended = anyone, or be=20 banned from FlyRotary like so many others have been from the other=20 list.)
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 marv@lancair.net
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 = 2:30=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: A = solution?=20 was : The truth??? / Injector flow rate mystery solved

What about = MOV's? =20 Typical transient response time measured in=20 nanoseconds...

   <Marv>  =20




"Steven Boese" <sboese@uwyo.edu> = wrote:

Ed and=20 Joe,

The diode in the EC2 allows the current from the = collapse of=20 the
injector magnetic field to flow to the positive supply rail = (~14V);=20 it
doesn't oppose this. A resistor allowing this current to flow=20 would
also result in a close delay since the current flowing is = what=20 maintains
the magnetic field during this delay. What is needed is = a way=20 to
decrease the rate of voltage rise just after the EC2 pulse = ends=20 so
arcing in the A/B selection relay is suppressed. After the=20 relay
contacts open enough that an arc is no longer possible = (which=20 shouldn't
take long) an open circuit condition now would allow = the=20 injector to
close quickly. The arcing may or may not be a problem = any=20 given tim Ed
 

--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:   =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C764E5.7BE03C90--