X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.100] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.6) with ESMTP id 1857679 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 23 Feb 2007 07:55:42 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l1NCsRLk024981 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2007 07:54:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c75749$c2c3a7e0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooked Board - Really! Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 07:54:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Hi Bob, 0.25mm pitch is distance between the pins of a device. Generally referred to as fine pitch. The larger 0.5mm pitch devices are no problem even for me with a iron. Actually, I have been thinking about what you suggested, but a much simpler version. Use a platform (on which to secure the PC board moving in the +-X direction (on rollers/slides) and an arm above the platform (with magnifying lens) that moves in the +- Y direction (across the board). Then take the wands from one of the inexpensive vacuum picks one the end of the arm and permit it to move up and down in the Z (vertical) direction. The Arm could also be move to the side to permit picking up components from a tray. That would permit placing any area of the board under the vacuum wand pick up area. The wand could also be rotated around the Z axis to place a component correctly. Nothing new here - a number of commercial devices operate on this principal - but too expensive for my hobby. I don't really want to get into building these aids too much as the objective is to build boards, but necessity...etc. ED ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Perkinson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 1:15 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooked Board - Really! > Ed, > Maybe your next project should be to build a robotic arm that is PLC > controlled to place the components. I am sure that if you look on ebay, > you > will be able to find the components:>). But if you take the time and the > trouble to do that then the price would shoot up to cover start up cost. > Don't even think of it. > I know the problems that you are having placing the components, because I > had the same problems just soldering components on Creativair nav lights. > Couldn't't see the end of the components, and not being able to determine > depth made me more the nervous, but I got them together and they look > great. > > Dumb question, when you say .025 pitch are you talking about the distance > between the components solder pads or between component terminals? > > Bob Perkinson > Hendersonville, TN. > RV9 N658RP Reserved > If nothing changes > Nothing changes > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On > Behalf Of Ed Anderson > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:26 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooked Board - Really! > > > Hi Chad, > > Appears there are many more ways than one to skin this cat. > > I've read of some using the Hot plate and one using a soup mug heater - > amazing what will work. > > Appreciate the tips on soldering, I'll work on them. I find 0805 tiny > enough , no 0603 or 0402 thank you {:>). > > Part of my personal problem is I only have one good eye, which means no > binocular depth perception and no paraxial. It can be a bit of challenge > to > get a soldering iron and piece of solder and a component all at the same > point in space at the same time {:>). > > That is one reason why I stopped building any circuits but those I could > use > a PC board for. > > The oven worked fine - but as you pointed out, you do have to move the > board > to the oven risking shifting some of the components or heaven forbid > dropping the board. > > I've got two more boards to try. I may decided to iron solder the 0.25mm > socket as the plastic stencil simply does not have the fidelity for the > smaller traces. That is the only component that failed due to the solder > bridges - and of course I can find my wick to try and pull the solder out. > Got some out with a sucker but not enough. > > Thanks again for the soldering tips. > > Ed > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chad Robinson" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:32 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooked Board - Really! > > >> Ed, try an electric hot plate. It's even easier to do - you can even put >> the components on the board and then heat it up without having to move it >> into the oven, risking knocking something off. >> >> If you get your temperature profile right, and use the right amount of >> solder, the parts should self-align. Also, believe it or not, >> hand-soldering these parts isn't as hard as it sounds. With a fine-tip >> iron (I file mine to a sharp point) you just touch the iron to the >> device's leg, and tap the solder there very quickly. It makes a quick, >> tidy joint, and is almost as fast. I've been able to do 0.25 pitch and >> 0603 parts this way. It sounds like a pain, but 99% of the work is in the >> placement anyway. Tapping an iron on there quickly is a piece of cake. >> >> If you use a good resin, and be sure to remove it with a cleaner, you can >> make this even easier. You just put a dab of resin where you want >> solder - >> a toothpick is perfect. Then tap a well-tinned iron to the joint between >> leg and board, and the resin will suck the solder right off the iron, >> exactly the right amount. I get perfect-looking joints this way, and no >> mucking about with stencils and solder paste. >> >> Regards, >> Chad >> >> Ed Anderson wrote: >>> My highly advanced GE convection reflow oven cost $38.99 and that part >>> of >>> the experiment work perfectly. Besides, I don't have room for one that >>> size, Mike {:>) >>> The most difficult part of the experiment was placing the components >>> without rubbing the solder paste off the pad and knocking another >>> component askew. I now understand why they talked about "arm rests". It >>> doesn't take much to get misalign. >>> Ed >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Michael LaFleur >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:40 PM >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Cooked Board - Really! >>> >>> This reflow oven failed to sell at auction today for $750. >>> >>> >>> Mike LaFleur >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Ed Anderson >> > >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> > >>> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 3:32:32 PM >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooked Board - Really! >>> >>> Well, today was the day. Got the missing SMD component in and I >>> cooked my first SMD PC board in my new toaster oven. >>> The results were not totally successful, but satisfactory in that >>> it didn't come out too bad for a first try and I learned several >>> things. >>> Here are a few photos for those of you interested. >>> Ed Anderson >>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >>> Matthews, NC >>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ >>> >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/