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From: "Steve Brooks" <prvt_pilot@yahoo.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: More cooling Tests
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:41:52 -0400
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In-Reply-To: <list-1315476@logan.com>

Steve,
My pipe is pretty short.  It is basically a 90 degree bend, and exits
through the back of the cowling (pusher).
The reason that I had it coated was to reduce the radiant heat.  I don't
have any wiring in the area, except the O2 sensor, but I've had no trouble
with the cowling getting blistered, it is only 1/2" clearance where the pipe
exists.  So I'm guessing that it works pretty good.  Even the paint hasn't
been blistered in 40 plus hours of flying and 10 plus hours of other
running.

The Jet-Hot web site does have some stats on temperature reduction, but it
deals with under hood temperatures in racing situations.  That is probably a
good comparison to our application since it is continuous high power.

The ceramic coating is both inside, and outside of the pipe. Theory being
that the coating on the inside keeps the metal from absorbing a lot of the
heat.  A while back I cleaned the black soot off of the inside of the pipe
where it exists the cowling, and the ceramic coating still looks like new.
Can't speak for elsewhere in the tube, but I've not noticed any
discoloration anywhere on the exhaust pipe.

When I redo my exhaust for either the T04 turbo, or removing the turbo, I'll
definitely have the new one ceramic coated as well.

Also, the ceramic coating makes the pipe look good.  Mine is gray, but they
have other colors as well.


Steve Brooks


-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On
Behalf Of Steve Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 2:16 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: More cooling Tests


Steve,

Do you have any information on how effective the ceramic coating has
been?  Did you see any noticeable reduction in cowl temps as a result?

Best Regards,

Steve Thomas

________________________________________________________________________

On Jul 25, 2006, at 4:57 AM, Steve Brooks wrote:

> Bob,
> For your exhaust, you may want to consider ceramic coating.  I had my
> exhaust pipe coated by a company called Jet-Hot.  As I recall it
> only cost
> about $50 to do mine, but it's only about 18" long, coming from the
> turbo.
>
> Here is their web link:
> http://www.jet-hot.com/
>
> What I got was the Jet-Hot 2000 coating, which is good to 2000
> degrees.
> Mine has held up very well, and shows no signs of deterioration.
>
> Steve Brooks
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On
> Behalf Of Bob White
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 1:30 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: More cooling Tests
>
>
> Thanks Dave,
>
> The fuel return to the tank is the next item on my todo list.  The
> tank
> developed a leak so I have to open it up anyway.  It seemed like the
> right time to fix it.
>
> The exhaust system is a large can with a tube thru the middle that
> supplies cooling air (theoretically) so the temps on the down tube
> should be lower than normal for a rotary.  However, it's still too hot
> for this material, whatever it is.
>
> I hope I haven't given the impression that I'm flying yet.  This is
> all
> taxi and static stuff. :(  I am getting pretty close though.
>
> I hope you are doing well.  I check your blog occasionally and I'm
> glad I don't have to deal with the temps shown in your July 13
> photo.  I
> could probably get close in Phoenix some days.  Best of luck and hope
> the rest of your tour passes quickly.
>
> Bob W.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:43:51 +0400
> "David Leonard" <wdleonard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> I can tell from experience that even most stuff that is intended
>> to go
>> directly onto exhausts will quickly desintigrate in the rotary.
>> The stuff
>> that is supposed to be good up to 1400 deg will start falling
>> apart after
> a
>> few hours.  That stuff you have will be done after the first flight.
>> Don't forget that your exhaust temps will go above 1600!
>>
>> I did find some exhaust wrap that was good up to 2000 deg. and it
>> is good
>> for about 100 hrs before becoming a little brittle and falling
>> off.  It
> was
>> worth it and made a big difference in my under cowl temps, but it
>> was not
>> cheap.
>>
>> As for your fuel system....   I am sure SOMEONE has said this
>> before (I
> have
>> not been reading the list very regularly because I am in Iraq), so
>> let me
>> repeat for effect.  RETURN THAT FUEL ALL THE WAY TO THE TANK!
>> One of the
>> great things about this high flow fuel injection system is that it is
>> possible to essentially eliminate ANY chance of vapor lock.  Vapor
>> lock
>> HAPPENS even in certified planes.  It is serious. It can be
>> fatal.  Route
>> that fuel back to the tank and it basically can't happen.... you
>> have a
>> better system than a typicl lyc set-up.  Route that fuel back to
>> the pump
>> and you may even be making things worse than a lyc set up.
>>
>> Sounds like you have decided to make a change, so this is just to
> re-enforce
>> that decision and send the message to anyone else considering the
>> easy way
>> out for fuel return....
>>
>> JMHO, & congratas on getting flying by the way! cant wait to see
>> it in
>> person some day..
>>
>> Dave Leonard
>>
>>
>> On 7/25/06, Bob White <rlwhite@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I finished putting a layer of insulation around the exhaust
>>> system.  I
>>> placed thermocouples in a few key locations.  One inside the
>>> insulation, one outside, and one on the fuel rail.  OAT was 80-85F.
>>>
>>> I ran the engine at 2200 rpm until the temps stabilized at 197
>>> oil and
>>> water.  I increased rpm's to 3100 and temps went up to 200 oil
>>> and 207
>>> water. They were still increasing very slowly.  I can taxi at
>>> 3100 rpm
>>> or less and getting a little movement should help cooling.  Also,
>>> when
>>> I reduced power back to 2200 rpm, the temps started decreasing.
>>> So on a
>>> not too hot day I think the cooling will be OK for taxiing.
>>>
>>> The insulation is a layer of reflective insulation I bough at the
>>> speed
>>> shop that is good to 1000F.  It has a metalized layer on each
>>> side and
>>> some kind of fibrous layer on the inside.  (The stuff itches like
>>> fiberglass when you get it on you.)  At the end of the test, the
>>> thermocouple on the inside layer was reading 235F and the one in the
>>> same place on the outside of the insulation was 167F.
>>>
>>> I still don't have the fuel return to the tank.  It's going directly
>>> back to the fuel pump input.  So the fuel rail temps were getting
>>> pretty high.  The fuel rail was 145F and the engine was starting
>>> to run
>>> a little rough, presumably due to incipient vapor lock.
>>>
>>> Next step is to open the tank and install the fuel return line.
>>> I ran
>>> the line from the firewall to the wing root this afternoon, so
>>> the easy
>>> part is done.
>>>
>>> Bob W.
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.bob-white.com
>>> N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (first engine start 1/7/06)
>>> Custom Cables for your rotary installation -
>>> http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
>>>
>>> --
>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> http://www.bob-white.com
> N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (first engine start 1/7/06)
> Custom Cables for your rotary installation -
> http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>


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