Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com ([24.93.67.82] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.3) with ESMTP id 2587070 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:58:18 -0400 Received: from o7y6b5 (clt78-020.carolina.rr.com [24.93.78.20]) by ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.2) with SMTP id h8KKoq0R027303 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003301c37fb9$8824db60$1702a8c0@WorkGroup> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbomania Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:55:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01C37F98.00D93FA0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C37F98.00D93FA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0030_01C37F98.00D93FA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0030_01C37F98.00D93FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Chris I'll know better as the date approaches. Never been there, but have = been to Austin and San Antonio. I know I could look it up on a map but = how far would you say it is from San Antonio? Well, you have a couple of Texas Rotary Flying now, and I am going to = try my best to be there and I suspect Tracy Crook will to. May be even = more I am unaware of. So I'll keep you in mind for any questions as the date approaches. Best Regards Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: CBarber=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 3:16 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbomania Ed, Just a word of encouragement....would love to see you and others at = SWRFI. I have a number of folks who are interested in the engine = choice, but they would really like to see flying craft. Its new venue in = New Braunfel, TX (between Austin and San Antonio) was a great choice. = Really great destination. I just returned yesterday from a yearly trek = (it is so nice, it wasn't even aviation related and took me away from = working on my newly delivered wing kit, ...just hammock piloting, = rivering and jet skiing). I don't think I will be flying yet, but I = will be a lot closer to flight .=20 If you need info on the area, let me know. I know it pretty well = (attended undergrad nearby). The Faust historic hotel is very = reasonable and very nice (IMHO, much nicer and better bang for the buck = than the cookie cutter chains).FWIW. All the best, Chris www.LoneStarVelocity.com Christopher Barber Attorney and Counselor at Law 11930 S Sam Houston Pkwy E Suite 103 Houston, Texas 77089-4755 281-464-LAWS (5297) "Serving the needs of Senior Texans" CBarber@TexasAttorney.net www.TexasAttorney.net=20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 9:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbomania Hi Bill, No, I have not. I have thought about it on the ground, but = always seem to forget in the air. I guess part of it is that I think I = have found good timing for power on takeoff and climb and just don't = want to mess with that. But, now that I think of it I presume that I = could mess with the timing on the "B" controller and leave the "A" = controller where it is, Hummmm. =20 I think I will check with Tracy to make certain screwing with the = timing on one processor won't screw it up on the other. I am 99% = certain - buuuttttt want to be sure. I am going to put the presentation on my website (well, actually I = dont' have my own, but a guy by name of Don Mack has hosted my stuff for = 4 years. Perhaps he won't mind adding some more. In any case, I will probably make hardcopy for a nominal fee (cover = my costs) for those interested. I've actually copyrighted the presentation and officially registered = it with the Library of Congress CopyRight Office. I don't know if = anything similar was even done by the Mazda engineers. We know they did = a lot of cut and try experimenting. Like for the 1990 VDIE manifold the = to the 1988 NA DIE manifold and changed its length in 200mm segments and = then ran dyno curves. Then they chose the segment lengths that gave = them the curves they wanted. So they may never have set down and worked = out the equations - what need had they when they had the resources to = emperically derive what they wanted {:>) Hell, I might find little guys dress all in black swinging long = sharp swords at my neither region {:>). I might accused of industrial = spying {:>) Well, going to also go to SERFI at Evergreen, Al in early October. = Plan on meeting Tracy there and having him give my work a santity check. = I sort of probed Paul Lamar, but without even seeing a single slide, he = started telling me that I would have a "hard sell". I guess that is = because he has "gone on the record" with an email telling folks not to = copy anything I was doing manifold wise, because it would "hurt" engine = performance at aircraft rpms. Well, he was wrong, but at the time there = was nothing I had to show that. I now do {:>). It might need a little = twicking on a couple of the parameter values, but the logic and equation = derivation is straight foward. No tricks up the sleeve, no magic hats - = its all laid out for anyone who can follow simple high school algebra = (and even if they can't) will understand. Keep trying to tell some of these folks that just because an intake = system is advertised (even honestedly) that it will produce 220 HP at = 8000 hp, doesn't mean that it will work for an aircraft (unless we can = find a way to shift gears). But, I went that route early on so it take = some time and poor experiences to help you find the path. Good hearing from you, Bill. I am going to try and make the SWRFI = next year as I have a long lost nephew living near that area. Take care and good flying Best Regards Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Eslick=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 8:34 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbomania Ed, Have you ever tweedled with the timing while at cruise RPM? = I didn't think to try that, but I may. Unfortunately work precludes the Shady Bend attendance this = time. Rats again. I am really looking forward to somehow taking in your = presentation on intake manifolds. Bill =20 Hi Bill Thanks for the great report. Glad to hear = the new manifold is working out so well. Yes, that old spark plug SAG = (Sparkplug Attention Getter) will certainly get your attention - ruined = more than one seat cusion myself from it. I've got myself a spark plug = cleaner (if I can find where I misplaced it) that I want to use to clear = some of the numerous spark plugs I have saved to see if I can't get some = more hours out of them. I wouldn't worry about not matching Tracy's = fuel profile - I can't either. I can cruise at 170 TAS and burn mabye = as low as 7.25- 7.5 gph but no lower. I think Tracy can get even higher = cruise TAS with 6 - 6.5 GPH. I think part of it is the higher drag of = the RV-6, but I also think Tracy has had so many long trips to play with = his ignition timing and other variables that he has his really fine = tuned. Do you plan on being at the Rotary Fly in? Ed Anderson eanderson@carolina.rr.com =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ------=_NextPart_001_0030_01C37F98.00D93FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Chris
 
    I'll know better as the date=20 approaches.  Never been there, but have been to Austin and San=20 Antonio.  I know I could look it up on a map but how far would = you say=20 it is from San Antonio?
 
Well, you have a couple of Texas Rotary Flying now, = and I am=20 going to try my best to be there and I suspect Tracy Crook will = to.  May be=20 even more I am unaware of.
 
So I'll keep you in mind for any questions as the = date=20 approaches.
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 CBarber
Sent: Saturday, September 20, = 2003 3:16=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Turbomania

Ed,
 
Just a word of = encouragement....would love=20 to see you and others at SWRFI.  I have a number of folks who are = interested in the engine choice, but they would really like to see = flying=20 craft. Its new venue in New Braunfel, TX (between Austin and San = Antonio)=20 was a great choice.  Really great destination.  I just = returned=20 yesterday from a yearly trek (it is so nice, it wasn't even aviation = related=20 and took me away from working on my newly delivered wing kit, ...just = hammock=20 piloting, rivering and jet skiing).  I don't think I will be = flying yet,=20 but I will be a lot closer to flight <g>.
 
If you need info on the area, = let me know.=20 I know it pretty well (attended undergrad nearby).  The Faust = historic=20 hotel is very reasonable and very nice (IMHO, much nicer = and better bang=20 for the buck than the cookie cutter chains).FWIW.
 
All the best,
 
Chris
www.LoneStarVelocity.com
 


Christopher Barber
Attorney and Counselor at = Law
11930 S=20 Sam Houston Pkwy E
Suite 103
Houston, Texas = 77089-4755
281-464-LAWS=20 (5297)

"Serving the needs of Senior=20 = Texans"

CBarber@TexasAttorney.net
www.TexasAttorney.net
=

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 9:44 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Turbomania

Hi Bill,
 
    No, I have not.  I have = thought=20 about it on the ground, but always seem to forget in the air.  = I guess=20 part of it is that I think I have found good timing for power on = takeoff and=20 climb and just don't want to mess with that.  But, now that I = think of=20 it I presume that I could mess with the timing on the "B" controller = and=20 leave the "A" controller where it is, Hummmm. 
 
I think I will check with Tracy to make certain = screwing=20 with the timing on one processor won't screw it up on the = other.  I am=20 99% certain - buuuttttt want to be sure.
 
I am going to put the presentation on my website = (well,=20 actually I dont' have my own, but a guy by name of Don Mack has = hosted my=20 stuff for 4 years.  Perhaps he won't mind adding some=20 more.
 
In any case, I will probably make hardcopy for a = nominal=20 fee (cover my costs) for those interested.
 
I've actually copyrighted the presentation and=20 officially registered it with the Library of Congress CopyRight = Office.=20 I don't know if anything similar was even done by the Mazda = engineers. =20 We know they did a lot of cut and try experimenting.  Like for = the 1990=20 VDIE manifold the to the 1988 NA DIE manifold and changed its length = in=20 200mm segments and then ran dyno curves.  Then they chose the = segment=20 lengths that gave them the curves they wanted. So they may never = have set=20 down and worked out the equations - what need had they when they had = the=20 resources to emperically derive what they wanted = {:>)
 
Hell, I might find little guys dress all in = black swinging=20 long sharp swords at my neither region {:>).  I might = accused of=20 industrial spying {:>)
 
Well, going to also go to SERFI at Evergreen, Al = in early=20 October.  Plan on meeting Tracy there and having him give my = work a=20 santity check.  I sort of probed Paul Lamar, but without even = seeing a=20 single slide, he started telling me that I would have a "hard = sell".  I=20 guess that is because he has "gone on the record" with an email = telling=20 folks not to copy anything I was doing manifold wise, because it = would=20 "hurt" engine performance at aircraft rpms.  Well, he was = wrong, but at=20 the time there was nothing I had to show that.  I now do = {:>). =20 It might need a little twicking on a couple of the parameter values, = but the=20 logic and equation derivation is straight foward.  No tricks up = the=20 sleeve, no magic hats - its all laid out for anyone who can follow = simple=20 high school algebra (and even if they can't) will = understand.
 
Keep trying to tell some of these folks that = just because=20 an intake system is advertised (even honestedly) that it will = produce 220 HP=20 at 8000 hp, doesn't mean that it will work for an aircraft (unless = we can=20 find a way to shift gears).  But, I went that route early on so = it take=20 some time and poor experiences to help you find the = path.
 
Good hearing from you, Bill.  I am going to = try and=20 make the SWRFI next year as I have a long lost nephew living near = that=20 area.
 
Take care and good flying
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Bill=20 Eslick
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Friday, September 19, = 2003 8:34=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Turbomania

Ed,
 
Have you ever tweedled with the timing while at cruise=20 RPM?  I didn't think to try that, but I may.
 
Unfortunately work precludes the Shady Bend attendance = this=20 time.  Rats again.
 
I am really looking forward to somehow taking in your=20 presentation on intake manifolds.
 
Bill
 
Hi Bill
 
    Thanks = for the=20 great report.  Glad to hear the new = manifold is=20 working out so well.  Yes, that old spark = plug=20 SAG (Sparkplug Attention Getter) will = certainly get=20 your attention - ruined more than one seat = cusion=20 myself from it.  I've got myself a spark = plug=20 cleaner (if I can find where I misplaced it) = that I=20 want to use to clear some of the numerous = spark plugs=20 I have saved to see if I can't get some more = hours out=20 of them.
 
  I wouldn't worry = about not=20 matching Tracy's fuel profile - I can't = either. =20 I can cruise at 170 TAS and burn mabye as low = as 7.25-=20 7.5 gph but no lower.  I think Tracy can = get even=20 higher cruise TAS with 6 - 6.5 GPH.  I = think part=20 of it is the higher drag of the RV-6, but I = also think=20 Tracy has had so many long trips to play with = his=20 ignition timing and other variables that he = has his=20 really fine tuned.
 
Do you plan on  being = at the=20 Rotary Fly in?
 
Ed Anderson
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
 
 
____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - = Email has=20 finally evolved -
Click=20 = Here
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