X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [65.54.250.85] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.4) with ESMTP id 888239 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:36:02 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.250.85; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:31:31 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 4.171.147.123 by BAY115-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:31:30 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.171.147.123] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Heat Exchangers Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:31:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C6048F.BEB93100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:31:25 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2005 16:31:31.0004 (UTC) FILETIME=[AAF14FC0:01C604B9] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C6048F.BEB93100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds like plenty of core area to me Monty. =20 Thought I had made my final decision on the oil cooler but still having = trouble getting all my design goals to work with the fluidyne cooler. = Those darn evap cores are hard to beat for weight, performance & size. = I'm back to figuring out a way to make the evap core reliable in oil = cooler service. =20 Rusty is the resident expert on failures on these things so a couple of = questions for him. =20 Were the connections on the end tanks welded on? I'm wondering if the = heat may have weakened the furnace brazed joints there since the = failures were always on the ends (I think). I noticed there is an = aluminum strap welded to the end tanks from top to bottom on some Harris = cores. Did yours have this? I am wondering if they are to resist the = expansion force trying to split the tank segments apart. I have built a test evap core cooler with bonded plates on the ends tied = together with threaded rod. This serves two purposes. It resists the = expansion forces and provides a thicker plate to drill & tap for AN = fittings (no welding required). Even with all the added hardware it = only weighs 5 1/2 lbs. The Fluidyne I was looking at was 12 lbs (and = still would not fit in the space available). Weight is so important to = me that I place a value of $100 per pound on weight savings. For = example, the 12 pounds I saved with aluminum landing gear cost an extra = $1200.00. This may turn out to be a total waste of time in which case I will need = a custom cooler. Ed K., what is the maximum core thickness that you can = get for oil coolers? Tracy=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Monty Roberts=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 5:47 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Heat Exchangers I read through all the archives on evaporator cores and radiators.=20 I have a few questions for Ed in particular and anybody else who has = any answers or recommendations. I am going to use radiators mounted in the wing behind the spar like a = ME109. There will be variable inlets and exits. I have a Ford evaporator core that is 4 inches thick. The actual core = minus the tanks is 8X9 in. So the core volume is 288 in^3. I will use = two of these in each wing.=20 The reason I am interested in this core is I can use two Fluidyne or = Earl's coolers stacked back to back to form a 4 in thick oil cooler that = is the exact same core size as the evap core. There would be two oil = coolers that measure 4X9 in by 4in thick. The hot oil is plumbed into = the rear 2in cooler and then goes into the front 2in cooler.=20 The evap core and the stacked oil coolers form a nice cooling block = that is 12X12.25X4. All of the plumbing points in the right direction. = This is a fast airplane and will cruise in the 250 mph range, I am not = opposed to putting spray bars in front of the coolers for the occasional = very hot day climb. The coolers are aligned with the outer portion of = the prop arc under the wing so they will be in a fairly high velocity = air stream on the ground. Do you guys think that this will be adequate cooling for a Pport 13b? Any big problems with the Ford Evaporator cores VS GM? They look to be = the same except for the thickness and dimensions just happen to coincide = with the oil coolers. Here are the evap cores 2 req: = http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/83-84-85-86-87-88-89-90-FORD-RANGER-EVAPOR= ATOR-CORE-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33547QQitemZ7967584770QQrdZ1QQss= pagenameZWD1V Here are the oil coolers DB-30110 4 required: = http://www.fluidyne.com/pl_hpaccessories.html Monty ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C6048F.BEB93100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sounds like plenty of core area to me Monty. 
 
Thought I had made my final decision on the oil cooler but still = having=20 trouble getting all my design goals to work with the fluidyne = cooler. =20 Those darn evap cores are hard to beat for weight, performance & = size. =20 I'm back to figuring out a way to make the evap core reliable in oil = cooler=20 service. 
 
Rusty is the resident expert on failures on these things so a = couple of=20 questions for him. 
Were the connections on the end tanks welded on?   I'm = wondering=20 if the heat may have weakened the furnace brazed joints there since the = failures=20 were always on the ends (I think).  I noticed there is an aluminum = strap=20 welded to the end tanks from top to bottom on some Harris cores.  = Did yours=20 have this?  I am wondering if they are to resist the expansion = force trying=20 to split the tank segments apart.
 
I have built a test evap core cooler with bonded plates = on the=20 ends tied together with threaded rod.  This serves two = purposes.  It=20 resists the expansion forces and provides a thicker plate to drill & = tap for=20 AN fittings (no welding required).  Even with all the added = hardware=20 it only weighs 5 1/2 lbs.  The Fluidyne I was looking at was 12 lbs = (and=20 still would not fit in the space available).  Weight is so = important to me=20 that I place a value of $100 per pound on weight savings.  For = example, the=20 12 pounds I saved with aluminum landing gear cost an extra=20 $1200.00.
 
This may turn out to be a total waste of time in which case I will = need a=20 custom cooler.  Ed K., what is the maximum core thickness that you = can get=20 for oil coolers?
 
Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: Monty=20 Roberts
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 = 5:47=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Heat=20 Exchangers

I read through all the archives on = evaporator=20 cores and radiators.
 
I have a few questions for Ed in = particular and=20 anybody else who has any answers or recommendations.
 
I am going to use radiators mounted = in the wing=20 behind the spar like a ME109. There will be variable inlets and=20 exits.
 
I have a Ford evaporator core that is = 4 inches=20 thick. The actual core minus the tanks is 8X9 in. So the core volume = is 288=20 in^3. I will use two of these in each wing.
 
The reason I am interested in this = core is I can=20 use two Fluidyne or Earl's coolers stacked back to back to form a = 4 in=20 thick oil cooler that is the exact same core size as the evap core. = There=20 would be two oil coolers that measure 4X9 in by 4in=20 thick. The hot oil is plumbed into the rear 2in cooler and then = goes into=20 the front 2in cooler. 
 
The evap core and the stacked = oil coolers=20 form a nice cooling block that is 12X12.25X4. All of=20 the plumbing points in the right direction. This is a fast = airplane and=20 will cruise in the 250 mph range, I am not opposed to putting spray = bars in=20 front of the coolers for the occasional very hot day climb. = The=20 coolers are aligned with the outer portion of the prop arc under the = wing so=20 they will be in a fairly high velocity air stream on the = ground.
 
Do you guys = think that this=20 will be adequate cooling for a Pport = 13b?
 
Any big = problems with the=20 Ford Evaporator cores VS GM? They look to be the same except for = the=20 thickness and dimensions just happen to coincide with the oil=20 coolers.
 
Here are the = evap cores 2=20 req:
 
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/83-84-85-86-87-88-8= 9-90-FORD-RANGER-EVAPORATOR-CORE-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33547QQit= emZ7967584770QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V
 
Here are the oil coolers DB-30110 4=20 required:
 
http://www.fluidyn= e.com/pl_hpaccessories.html
 
Monty
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