X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.152] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.4) with ESMTP id 887832 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:44:52 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.148.227.152; envelope-from=techwelding@comcast.net Received: from dell (pcp02495568pcs.paduca01.ky.comcast.net[68.63.249.158]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20051219044401014008h9fqe>; Mon, 19 Dec 2005 04:44:06 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c60456$d7d50bc0$9ef93f44@dell> From: "Ed Klepeis" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Heat exchangers. Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 22:43:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C60424.89133930" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C60424.89133930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Monty =20 Here is some food for thought plus some pic = www.techwelding.com of whats possible. Regards Ed Klepeis -- Original Message -----=20 From: Monty Roberts=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 10:22 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Heat exchangers. Monty here is my back of the envelope calculations. If you are = going to produce apporx 220HP steady State at cruise (which I assume you = are if cruising at 250MPH) then you will need to dump close to 10,000 = BTU /Min waste heat via radiators and oil coolers. My calculations = indicates that at 250 MPH cruise you will should have no problem getting = rid of that much heat with that dynamic pressure and core area(assuming = your ducts are doing their job). However, my calculations also indicate you may have to hit as much = as 150-160 MPH before your cooling is able to keep up with the heat = rejection. So don't know how long it will take you get to that speed = from take off, but better carry a bit of spray bar water. Of course, = you could pull back on the throttle and ease the heat load in a slower = climb to cruise altitude. Ed A Thanks Ed, You are the Ed I was after sorry for the confusion Ed K. I also was = not very clear about the number of heat exchangers. There would be 1 = 12X12X4 in block in each wing. We agree on the heat flow, my calcs were = somewhere around 10800 BTU/min at full tilt. 150-160 mph is fine for = climb. How long to get to that speed? Something that weighs less than = 2000 lbs and has 250 Hp gets there....quick.=20 Looks like the Ford cores will not work. I cut the end tank off one of = them this evening. It has a lot of internal baffles and is a 3 pass = design. It would probably be way too restrictive if used as a radiator. = IF not for the baffles they would be great. It is actually a much better = design for an EVAPORATOR than the GM units. Why did Ford have to pick = this particular thing to make better than GM. Just to pick on me I = guess. Anybody seen any GM cores that are 4 in thick with 9 inches between = tanks? Monty ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C60424.89133930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Monty

Here is = some food=20 for thought plus some pic www.techwelding.com of whats=20 possible.

&nbs= p; = ; = &= nbsp; &n= bsp; =20 Regards

&nbs= p; = ; = &= nbsp; =20 Ed Klepeis

-- Original Message -----
From:=20 Monty=20 Roberts
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft

Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 = 10:22=20 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Heat=20 exchangers.

Monty here is my back = of the=20 envelope calculations. If you are going to produce apporx = 220HP=20 steady State at cruise (which I assume you are if cruising at 250MPH) = then you=20 will need to dump close to 10,000 BTU /Min waste heat via radiators = and oil=20 coolers. My calculations indicates that at 250 MPH cruise you = will=20 should have no problem getting rid of that much heat with that dynamic = pressure and core area(assuming your ducts are doing their=20 job).

However, my = calculations=20 also indicate you may have to hit as much as 150-160 MPH before your = cooling=20 is able to keep up with the heat rejection. So don't know how = long it=20 will take you get to that speed from take off, but better carry = a bit of=20 spray bar water. Of course, you could pull back on the throttle = and ease=20 the heat load in a slower climb to cruise altitude.

Ed A

Thanks Ed,

You are the Ed I was after sorry for = the=20 confusion Ed K. I also was not very clear about the number of = heat=20 exchangers. There would be 1 12X12X4 in block in each wing. We agree = on the=20 heat flow, my calcs were somewhere around 10800 BTU/min at full = tilt.=20 150-160 mph is fine for climb. How long to get to that = speed?=20 Something that weighs less than 2000 lbs and has 250 Hp gets=20 there....quick.

Looks like the Ford cores will not = work. I cut=20 the end tank off one of them this evening. It has a lot of internal = baffles=20 and is a 3 pass design. It would probably be way too restrictive if = used as a=20 radiator. IF not for the baffles they would be great. It is actually a = much=20 better design for an EVAPORATOR than the GM units. Why did Ford have = to pick=20 this particular thing to make better than GM. Just to pick on me I=20 guess.

Anybody seen any GM cores that are 4 = in thick=20 with 9 inches between tanks?

Monty

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