X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp112.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.211] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.4) with SMTP id 886294 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:49:10 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.198.211; envelope-from=tim2542@sbcglobal.net Received: (qmail 14016 invoked from network); 17 Dec 2005 18:48:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO andresxp) (tim2542@sbcglobal.net@69.238.197.197 with login) by smtp112.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Dec 2005 18:48:20 -0000 From: "Tim Andres" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: COZY: DAR Update on my LED/Strobe lights for Phase II Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:48:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C602F7.62F4DCF0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcYDGjuQ5mnMWsDGRce0DYnvQln3HgAH1mBQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C602F7.62F4DCF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, cant you just stub out the wiring, install blanks and install after you get your AWC. Use the "Unless appropriately equipped for night or IFR flight, ...", clause and install them after the "coast is clear"? Wouldn't this work? Tim Andres Redding, Ca. From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Barber Law Firm Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:04 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: COZY: DAR Update on my LED/Strobe lights for Phase II That really *&(&ing sucks. Just goes to show ya, we rarely make progress or succeed because of our government.......if we are to progress and succeed it usually is in spite of our government. I have those same lights and they are REALLY Kewl and better than the Whelens, IMHO. I really resent this type of head in the ground bureaucracy. GEEEEESH. Can't these guys occasionally stay at a Holiday Inn Express???? All the best, Chris Christopher Barber Attorney and Counselor at Law "Serving the needs of Senior Texans" Barber Law Firm 10827 Tower Bridge St. Houston, Texas 77075-5032 281-464-LAWS (5297) CBarber@TexasAttorney.net www.TexasAttorney.net Texas -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Bulent Aliev Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 6:53 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Fwd: COZY: DAR Update on my LED/Strobe lights for Phase II Begin forwarded message: From: "iflycozy@bunchlaw.com" Date: December 16, 2005 10:48:39 PM EST To: cozy_builders@mailman.qth.net Subject: COZY: DAR Update on my LED/Strobe lights for Phase II For all of you who have read my posts since June 05 relating to my very tough DAR on my wingtip LED/strobe lights, here is an update. As you will recall, I have non-TSO'ed lights from gs-air.com. They are really cool, bright and uses 4 amps for two strobes and four position lights. My DAR would not sign off Phase II with those lights with the language of "Unless appropriately equipped for night or IFR flight, ..." which would allow me to make a logbook entry to fly at night. My DAR would only give me Phase II with VFR day only restriction because he interpreted the words "approved anti-collision light system" in FAR 91.205(c) to mean only approved by the Administrator. My DAR's boss in the Louisville FSDO office sent me an email saying that their position is that I must have "approved" anti-collision lights, i.e., TSO or PMA or a field approval. Since PMA does not exist for experimentals and Atlanta or any DER would not give me a field app roval, I was told that if I wanted to flight at night, all of which night equipment is required for IFR, I must have TSO'ed wingtip lights. Nat and everyone else said to get another DAR, so the following is my report. I have talked with EAA in Oshkosh (Joe Norris who was very helpful) and they put my in touch with a DAR in Illinois in the MIDO office, whose boss/Prinicipal Investigator (PI) is in Vadalia, OH. Vadalia is in my region or district. They told me today that although my analysis of the FARs and evidence showing that my wingtip lights meet or exceeds the airworthiness standard for approved position/anti-collision lights, that they would have issued me the above quoted language if I had originally applied for my airworthiness certificate from them, BUT that since I started out in FSDO, I am subject to their mercy as I can not escape from the FSDO office in Louisville. So, there you have it. I must change my very cool, slick LEDs for old technology which draws about 15 amps (strobes and nav lights) from Whelen as they are the only TSO'ed lights that I have found. Of course, Whelen lights are almost $900. So, the little man has lost and the moral to this story is GO TO THE NATIONAL EAA TO GET A DAR FROM YOUR LOCAL MIDO OFFICE BEFORE YOU APPLY FOR AN AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE, even if a local FSDO DAR was recommended to you. After my problem with my lights, need I say more. All of you guys still building (which I am after flying 25 hours--you know, still tweaking) MUST learn from my mistake. Don't get involved with the FSDO office as you will be in a world of hurt ($$$$) very fast. Matt Bunch Lexington, KY ______________________________________________________________ Cozy_builders mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cozy_builders Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.html Post: mailto:Cozy_builders@mailman.qth.net ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C602F7.62F4DCF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Chris,  cant you just stub out = the wiring, install blanks and install after you get your AWC. Use the = "Unless appropriately equipped for night or IFR flight, ...", clause and = install them after the “coast is clear”? Wouldn’t this = work?

Tim Andres

Redding, Ca.

 

 

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Barber Law Firm
Sent: Saturday, December = 17, 2005 7:04 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Fwd: COZY: DAR Update on my LED/Strobe lights for Phase = II

 

That really *&(&ing = sucks.  Just goes to show ya, we rarely make progress or succeed because of our government.......if we are to progress and succeed it usually is in = spite of our government.  I have those same lights and they are REALLY Kewl = and better than the Whelens, IMHO.  I really resent this type of head = in the ground bureaucracy.  GEEEEESH.  Can't these guys occasionally = stay at a Holiday Inn Express????

 

All the = best,

 

Chris

 

Christopher Barber

Attorney and Counselor at = Law

 

"Serving the needs of Senior Texans"

Barber Law = Firm
10827 Tower Bridge = St.

Houston, Texas = 77075-5032
= 281-464-LAWS (5297)


CBarber@TexasAttorney.net
www.TexasAttorney.net 

 

3DTexas

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Bulent Aliev
Sent: Saturday, December = 17, 2005 6:53 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fwd: = COZY: DAR Update on my LED/Strobe lights for Phase = II

 

 

Begin forwarded message:



Date: December 16, 2005 10:48:39 PM = EST

Subject: COZY: DAR Update on my = LED/Strobe lights for Phase II

 

For all of you = who have read my posts since June 05 relating to my very tough DAR on my wingtip LED/strobe lights, here is an update.

As you will recall, I have non-TSO'ed lights from gs-air.com. They are = really cool, bright and uses 4 amps for two strobes and four position lights. = My DAR would not sign off Phase II with those lights with the language of = "Unless appropriately equipped for night or IFR flight, ..." which would = allow me to make a logbook entry to fly at night. My DAR would only give me Phase = II with VFR day only restriction because he interpreted the words = "approved anti-collision light system" in FAR 91.205(c) to mean only approved = by the Administrator. My DAR's boss in the Louisville FSDO office sent me an = email saying that their position is that I must have "approved" anti-collision lights, i.e., TSO or PMA or a field approval. Since PMA = does not exist for experimentals and Atlanta or any DER would not give me a field app roval, I was told that if I = wanted to flight at night, all of which night equipment is required for IFR, I = must have TSO'ed wingtip lights. Nat and everyone else said to get another DAR, so = the following is my report.

I have talked with EAA in Oshkosh (Joe = Norris who was very helpful) and they put my in touch with a DAR in Illinois in the MIDO office, whose boss/Prinicipal Investigator (PI) is in = Vadalia, OH. Vadalia is in my region or district. They told me today that although my analysis of the FARs and evidence showing that my wingtip lights meet or exceeds the airworthiness standard for approved position/anti-collision = lights, that they would have issued me the above quoted language if I had = originally applied for my airworthiness certificate from them, BUT that since I = started out in FSDO, I am subject to their mercy as I can not escape from the = FSDO office in Louisville. So, there you have it. I must change my very cool, = slick LEDs for old technology which draws about 15 amps (strobes and nav = lights) from Whelen as they are the only TSO'ed lights that I have found. Of course, = Whelen lights are almost $900. So, the little man has lost and the moral to = this story is GO TO THE NATIONAL EAA TO GET A DAR FROM YOUR LOCAL MIDO OFFICE = BEFORE YOU APPLY FOR AN AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE, even if a local FSDO DAR was = recommended to you. After my problem with my lights, need I say more. All of you = guys still building (which I am after flying 25 hours--you know, still tweaking) = MUST learn from my mistake. Don't get involved with the FSDO office as you = will be in a world of hurt ($$$$) very fast.

Matt Bunch
Lexington, = KY

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