X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.103] (HELO ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c6) with ESMTP id 781542 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:44:51 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.103; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-025-165.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.25.165]) by ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j9OCi11v007728 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:44:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01c5d898$a0d947b0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] It's a Start! Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:44:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5D877.19874350" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5D877.19874350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Congratulations, Joe! A great feeling when it first fires up. You didn't say whether your prop was on or not. I find that my idle = setting will cause my engine to idle close to 4500 rpm without the prop = load. With the prop it idles around 1600 rpm. Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe Hull=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 11:43 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] It's a Start! Fellow "Fly-Rotarians" -=20 =20 I've got an "Atkins Special" - 85-86 13B, short intake manifold, 2 = injector TMW Throttle body, MicroTech ECU, and Tracy's EM2.=20 =20 This weekend I finally was able to put everything in place and try an = engine start. I tried three tries cranking the engine for about 15-30 = seconds and it felt like it was firing every once in a while but not = enough to start. I took the intake off and started to take the plugs out = to see if there was a pool of gas in the rotors, when it felt like one = or both of the bottom plug wires weren't fully seated. I re-seated the = plug wires and had my wife crank the engine while I watched the intake. = Ah ha! The rear (#2) rotor's injector wasn't firing. So, I moved the #2 = injector wires to the #1 rotor and cranked again and there was spraying = - so it wasn't the wires and off with the fuel rail and out comes the #2 = injector. I couldn't see any obvious clogging, so I cycled it a few = times while dropping penetrating oil into it (OK it just happened to be = the handiest thing at the moment). The penetrating oil started to go = through the injector after a couple cycles so I put it back in and = buttoned up the fuel rail and reconnected everything. I Cranked briefly = again and there was now a spray pattern. So, it was time for another = real try at starting. I cranked for 10 seconds or so and ka-chug - = Vrrrrooooommmmm 3500-4000 rpm with a closed throttle! After 2 seconds = of hysteria I turned the key to off and went back (it's a pusher) to see = if there were any leaks or other anomalies.=20 =20 I guess I really wasn't expecting it to start and my plan for what to = look for on my engine monitors and ECU went out the window when it took = off like that! A brief inspection of the engine, hoses, and wires turned = up nothing out of the ordinary. So it was time to try again, this time = with a real expectation of a start and another plan on what to do in the = first few seconds. Again a few seconds of cranking and off she went. = This time I checked "OP" on the EM2 and it was reading 112psi - hmmm - a = tad high but I guess high is better than low. Fuel pressure was 61psi = and RPMs were 3000-3500. After 30 seconds I turned it off and went to = re-check everything. Again everything looked good except now that the = oil had made to all the little nooks and crannies I was about a quart = low. So I added a quart, and checked coolant levels and topped them off = as well. I didn't see any oil in the plastic rotor oil "injection" lines = so I decided, until I'm satisfied that there is oil flowing, I was going = to use 2-cycle oil. I added some 2 cycle and sloshed the tank around by = rocking the plane. =20 I read a little more in my ECU (MicroTech) manual and turned off the = cold start enrichment and found the screen where the fuel flow at idle = is set. I cranked it up again and began fiddling with the idle fuel = flow when the 2-cycle mix made it to the injectors and things began to = run rough and it died. I started it up again and it ran rough for a few = seconds and died again. And, that's where I had to leave it this = weekend.=20 =20 All in all I'm a happy camper! I didn't fully expect to get the = engine running quite so easily. So, now it's a matter of figuring out = how to control the open time on the injectors so I can idle at something = less that 3000 RPM, and a whole bunch of fine tuning. =20 My airplane is now "whole". All the parts are there (well except the = seat cushions). Now it's just a small matter of getting them all working = together - the first time and every time, for as long as I want them to! =20 Regards, Joe Hull Redmond (Seattle), Washington Cozy MkIV #991 (working on Engine & Electrical & Finishing) http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/JoeHull/index.html =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5D877.19874350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Congratulations, Joe!  A great feeling when = it first=20 fires up.
 
You didn't say whether your prop was on or = not.  I=20 find that my idle setting will cause my engine to idle close to 4500 rpm = without=20 the prop load.  With the prop it idles around 1600 = rpm.
 
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Joe Hull=20
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 = 11:43=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] It's a = Start!

Fellow = =93Fly-Rotarians=94 =96=20

 

I=92ve got an =93Atkins = Special=94 =96=20 85-86 13B, short intake manifold, 2 injector TMW Throttle body, MicroTech ECU, and Tracy=92s EM2.=20

 

This weekend I finally = was able to=20 put everything in place and try an engine start. I tried three tries = cranking=20 the engine for about 15-30 seconds and it felt like it was firing = every once=20 in a while but not enough to start. I took the intake off and started = to take=20 the plugs out to see if there was a pool of gas in the rotors, when it = felt=20 like one or both of the bottom plug wires weren=92t fully seated. I = re-seated=20 the plug wires and had my wife crank the engine while I watched the = intake. Ah=20 ha! The rear (#2) rotor=92s injector wasn=92t firing. So, I moved the = #2 injector=20 wires to the #1 rotor and cranked again and there was spraying =96 so = it wasn=92t=20 the wires and off with the fuel rail and out comes the #2 injector. I = couldn=92t=20 see any obvious clogging, so I cycled it a few times while dropping=20 penetrating oil into it (OK it just happened to be the handiest thing = at the=20 moment). The penetrating oil started to go through the injector after = a couple=20 cycles so I put it back in and buttoned up the fuel rail and = reconnected=20 everything. I Cranked briefly again and there was now a spray pattern. =  So, it was time for another = real try at=20 starting. I cranked for 10 seconds or so and ka-chug =96 Vrrrrooooommmmm=20  3500-4000 rpm = with a=20 closed throttle! After 2 seconds of hysteria I turned the key to off = and went=20 back (it=92s a pusher) to see if there were any leaks or other = anomalies.=20

 

I guess I really = wasn=92t expecting=20 it to start and my plan for what to look for on my engine monitors and = ECU=20 went out the window when it took off like that! A brief inspection of = the=20 engine, hoses, and wires turned up nothing out of the ordinary.  So it was time to try again, = this time=20 with a real expectation of a start and another plan on what to do in = the first=20 few seconds. Again a few seconds of cranking and off she went. This = time I=20 checked =93OP=94 on the EM2 and it was reading 112psi =96 hmmm =96 a = tad high but I=20 guess high is better than low. Fuel pressure was 61psi and RPMs were 3000-3500. =20 After 30 seconds I turned it off and went to re-check = everything. Again=20 everything looked good except now that the oil had made to all the = little=20 nooks and crannies I was about a quart low. So I added a quart, and = checked=20 coolant levels and topped them off as well. I didn=92t see any oil in = the=20 plastic rotor oil =93injection=94 lines so I decided, until I=92m = satisfied that=20 there is oil flowing, I was going to use 2-cycle oil. I added some 2 = cycle and=20 sloshed the tank around by rocking the = plane.

 

I read a little more in = my ECU=20 (MicroTech) manual and turned off the cold = start=20 enrichment and found the screen where the fuel flow at idle is = set.  I cranked it up again and = began=20 fiddling with the idle fuel flow when the 2-cycle mix made it to the = injectors=20 and things began to run rough and it died. I started it up again and = it ran=20 rough for a few seconds and died again. And, that=92s where I had to = leave it=20 this weekend.

 

All in all I=92m a happy = camper!  I didn=92t = fully expect to=20 get the engine running quite so easily. So, now it=92s a matter of = figuring out=20 how to control the open time on the injectors so I can idle at = something less=20 that 3000 RPM, and a whole bunch of fine = tuning.

 

My airplane is now = =93whole=94. All=20 the parts are there (well except the seat cushions). Now it=92s just a = small=20 matter of getting them all working together =96 the first time and = every time,=20 for as long as I want them to!

 

Regards,

Joe=20 Hull

Redmond=20 (Seattle), Washington

Cozy = MkIV #991=20 (working on Engine & Electrical & = Finishing)

http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/JoeHull/index.html

 

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