X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.115] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c6) with ESMTP id 781395 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:33:14 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.131.115; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from 204.127.135.41 ([204.127.135.41]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2005102404322811100natnoe>; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 04:32:28 +0000 Received: from [172.158.129.232] by 204.127.135.41; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 04:32:28 +0000 From: keltro@att.net (Kelly Troyer) To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] It's a Start! Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 04:32:28 +0000 Message-Id: <102420050432.211.435C63D9000DFE92000000D32158766720019D9B040A05@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Feb 14 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_211_1130128348_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_211_1130128348_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joe, Congrats !! Did not catch if prop was installed for first start........If not could be part of the fast idle problem......... -- Kelly Troyer Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2 -------------- Original message from "Joe Hull" : -------------- Fellow “Fly-Rotarians” – I’ve got an “Atkins Special” – 85-86 13B, short intake manifold, 2 injector TMW Throttle body, MicroTech ECU, and Tracy’s EM2. This weekend I finally was able to put everything in place and try an engine start. I tried three tries cranking the engine for about 15-30 seconds and it felt like it was firing every once in a while but not enough to start. I took the intake off and started to take the plugs out to see if there was a pool of gas in the rotors, when it felt like one or both of the bottom plug wires weren’t fully seated. I re-seated the plug wires and had my wife crank the engine while I watched the intake. Ah ha! The rear (#2) rotor’s injector wasn’t firing. So, I moved the #2 injector wires to the #1 rotor and cranked again and there was spraying – so it wasn’t the wires and off with the fuel rail and out comes the #2 injector. I couldn’t see any obvious clogging, so I cycled it a few times while dropping penetrating oil into it (OK it just happened to be the handiest thing at the moment). The penetrating oil started to go through the injector after a couple cycles so I put it back in and buttoned up the fuel rail and reconnected everything. I Cranked briefly again and there was now a spray pattern. So, it was time for another real try at starting. I cranked for 10 seconds or so and ka-chug – Vrrrrooooommmmm 3500-4000 rpm with a closed throttle! After 2 seconds of hysteria I turned the key to off and went back (it’s a pusher) to see if there were any leaks or other anomalies. I guess I really wasn’t expecting it to start and my plan for what to look for on my engine monitors and ECU went out the window when it took off like that! A brief inspection of the engine, hoses, and wires turned up nothing out of the ordinary. So it was time to try again, this time with a real expectation of a start and another plan on what to do in the first few seconds. Again a few seconds of cranking and off she went. This time I checked “OP” on the EM2 and it was reading 112psi – hmmm – a tad high but I guess high is better than low. Fuel pressure was 61psi and RPMs were 3000-3500. After 30 seconds I turned it off and went to re-check everything. Again everything looked good except now that the oil had made to all the little nooks and crannies I was about a quart low. So I added a quart, and checked coolant levels and topped them off as well. I didn’t see any oil in the plastic rotor oil “injection” lines so I decided, until I’m satisfied that there is oil flowing, I was going to use 2-cycle oil. I added some 2 cycle and sloshed the tank around by rocking the plane. I read a little more in my ECU (MicroTech) manual and turned off the cold start enrichment and found the screen where the fuel flow at idle is set. I cranked it up again and began fiddling with the idle fuel flow when the 2-cycle mix made it to the injectors and things began to run rough and it died. I started it up again and it ran rough for a few seconds and died again. And, that’s where I had to leave it this weekend. All in all I’m a happy camper! I didn’t fully expect to get the engine running quite so easily. So, now it’s a matter of figuring out how to control the open time on the injectors so I can idle at something less that 3000 RPM, and a whole bunch of fine tuning. My airplane is now “whole”. All the parts are there (well except the seat cushions). Now it’s just a small matter of getting them all working together – the first time and every time, for as long as I want them to! Regards, Joe Hull Redmond (Seattle), Washington Cozy MkIV #991 (working on Engine & Electrical & Finishing) http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/JoeHull/index.html --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_211_1130128348_0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Joe,
  Congrats !! Did not catch if prop was installed for first start........If not could be part of the
fast idle problem.........
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




-------------- Original message from "Joe Hull" <JoeH@PilgrimTech.com>: --------------

Fellow “Fly-Rotarians” –

 

I’ve got an “Atkins Special” – 85-86 13B, short intake manifold, 2 injector TMW Throttle body, MicroTech ECU, and Tracy’s EM2.

 

This weekend I finally was able to put everything in place and try an engine start. I tried three tries cranking the engine for about 15-30 seconds and it felt like it was firing every once in a while but not enough to start. I took the intake off and started to take the plugs out to see if there was a pool of gas in the rotors, when it felt like one or both of the bottom plug wires weren’t fully seated. I re-seated the plug wires and had my wife crank the engine while I watched the intake. Ah ha! The rear (#2) rotor’s injector wasn’t firing. So, I moved the #2 injector wires to the #1 rotor and cranked again and there was spraying – so it wasn’t the wires and off with the fuel rail and out comes the #2 injector. I couldn’t see any obvious clogging, so I cycled it a few times while dropping penetrating oil into it (OK it just happened to be the handiest thing at the moment). The penetrating oil started to go through the injector after a couple cycles so I put it back in and buttoned up the fuel rail and reconnected everything. I Cranked briefly again and there was now a spray pattern.  So, it was time for another real try at starting. I cranked for 10 seconds or so and ka-chug – Vrrrrooooommmmm  3500-4000 rpm with a closed throttle! After 2 seconds of hysteria I turned the key to off and went back (it’s a pusher) to see if there were any leaks or other anomalies.

 

I guess I really wasn’t expecting it to start and my plan for what to look for on my engine monitors and ECU went out the window when it took off like that! A brief inspection of the engine, hoses, and wires turned up nothing out of the ordinary.  So it was time to try again, this time with a real expectation of a start and another plan on what to do in the first few seconds. Again a few seconds of cranking and off she went. This time I checked “OP” on the EM2 and it was reading 112psi – hmmm – a tad high but I guess high is better than low. Fuel pressure was 61psi and RPMs were 3000-3500.  After 30 seconds I turned it off and went to re-check everything. Again everything looked good except now that the oil had made to all the little nooks and crannies I was about a quart low. So I added a quart, and checked coolant levels and topped them off as well. I didn’t see any oil in the plastic rotor oil “injection” lines so I decided, until I’m satisfied that there is oil flowing, I was going to use 2-cycle oil. I added some 2 cycle and sloshed the tank around by rocking the plane.

 

I read a little more in my ECU (MicroTech) manual and turned off the cold start enrichment and found the screen where the fuel flow at idle is set.  I cranked it up again and began fiddling with the idle fuel flow when the 2-cycle mix made it to the injectors and things began to run rough and it died. I started it up again and it ran rough for a few seconds and died again. And, that’s where I had to leave it this weekend.

 

All in all I’m a happy camper!  I didn’t fully expect to get the engine running quite so easily. So, now it’s a matter of figuring out how to control the open time on the injectors so I can idle at something less that 3000 RPM, and a whole bunch of fine tuning.

 

My airplane is now “whole”. All the parts are there (well except the seat cushions). Now it’s just a small matter of getting them all working together – the first time and every time, for as long as I want them to!

 

Regards,

Joe Hull

Redmond (Seattle), Washington

Cozy MkIV #991 (working on Engine & Electrical & Finishing)

http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/JoeHull/index.html

 

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