Return-Path: <13brv3@bellsouth.net> Received: from imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.70] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.1) with ESMTP id 2532612 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:45:33 -0400 Received: from rad ([68.212.14.21]) by imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with ESMTP id <20030819024532.NJJJ12990.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@rad> for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:45:32 -0400 From: "Russell Duffy" <13brv3@bellsouth.net> To: "Flyrotary List" Subject: some progress, and more understanding Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:45:34 -0500 Message-ID: <00d801c365fb$f6b43df0$0201a8c0@rad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D9_01C365D2.0DDE35F0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01C365D2.0DDE35F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, =20 As before, here's my daily log. At least I'm starting to understand = what's wrong. =20 =20 Cheers, Rusty =20 =20 8-18-03 / 5 hours / 1341 total =20 Started by taking the top skin off, and swapping the vacuum lines to the controllers. I now have a line from rotor 1 to the A controller, the = fuel regulator, and the boost gauge. There is another line from rotor 2 to = the B controller. =20 =20 I checked the boost gauge against my mityvac, and it seemed to be at = least in the ballpark. There was as much as 2-3 in difference in vacuum at = around 20 in, but I didn't really make note of which one was higher. Since the mityvac has a cheaper gauge than the boost gauge, I wouldn't know which = to believe anyway. I wish I had made some notes, and also checked my other automotive test gauge.=20 =20 While I had the top cover off, I checked the cold start wiring for the zillionth time, and also clipped a test lead to it so I could monitor = the voltage. Everything was hooked up correctly, and it did exactly what it = was supposed to do during the runs. Turning on and off the secondary switch while at low power didn't make any difference, so all that is fine. =20 =20 Re-installed the better primary connectors, and found no problems with = them during the runs. =20 =20 The test Tracy wanted me to perform was to swap the primary and = secondary wires again, and make note of which set of injectors is rich or lean. = So, I did this, and got the following results: =20 Normal- smooth, turning off and on secondary makes no diff at low power. Primary sw off- (using primaries) smooth with mixture turned down to = about 8:00 position. Secondary sw off- (using secondaries) smooth, with mixture turned up to = 2:00 position. =20 This confirms that the MSD injectors, that are installed in the = secondary position are flowing far less fuel than they should be. Not sure what = I'll do about this now. =20 =20 Also, during this run, I had my automotive test gauge hooked up to the B controller, while watching the boost gauge on the A controller. There = was always about a 3 in vacuum difference between the two, and I chalked it = up to crappy gauges. =20 =20 Tracy mentioned that the preference was to have the smaller injectors as = the primaries, so I left the wires swapped, so the MDS injectors would = operate as the secondaries. I proceeded to try to tune the engine with this = setup. With the exception of the transition point, the engine is now running = pretty darned well on the A controller. I then tried to tune the B controller, = and found that I couldn't make it idle, or run at low power, though it's = fine at higher power. It acts as if it's in the transition at idle and just = above, and I believe that's the case. I'm starting to think there really IS a = 2-3 in difference in vacuum between the two ports on the TB. Since I = swapped those ports at the beginning of the day, I'm now seeing on the B = controller, the unruly behavior that was happening before on the A controller, and A = is behaving better. I'll T these two ports together next, as Tracy = suggested earlier. =20 =20 Finally, the Tiny Tach is NOT working properly again. It's fine at low = rpm, but wanders around at high rpm. I couldn't get any stable reading at = full power. Gotta find another tach, preferably one that works with a 5V = pulse. =20 So, to recap. There is defiantly a huge difference in the flow rate of = the primary Mazda 550 injectors, and the MSD-2013 525 injectors. There's NO = way these are flowing 525 cc/min. This is causing a big problem at = transition. At that throttle setting, it's very rough, and I can't do anything to = help with the mixture. Turning it up is worse, and turning it down is worse. = I don't see how I can tune this out. The only option is replacing the injectors, or trying to set the transition below idle, so all 4 = injectors are on all the time. Probably going to try this next. =20 The other problem is that my transition is falling right around idle and = low throttle on the B controller. T-ing the ports together should at least = make both controllers behave the same. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01C365D2.0DDE35F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Greetings,
 
As before, = here's my daily=20 log.  At least I'm starting to understand what's wrong. =20
 
Cheers,
Rusty
 
 

8-18-03  = /  5 hours  / =20 1341 total

 

Started by taking the = top skin=20 off, and swapping the vacuum lines to the controllers.  I now have a line from rotor 1 = to the A=20 controller, the fuel regulator, and the boost gauge.  There is another line from = rotor 2 to=20 the B controller. 

 

I checked the boost = gauge against=20 my mityvac, and it seemed to be at least in the ballpark.  There was as much as 2-3 in = difference=20 in vacuum at around 20 in, but I didn’t really make note of which = one was=20 higher.  Since the mityvac = has a=20 cheaper gauge than the boost gauge, I wouldn’t know which to = believe=20 anyway.  I wish I had made = some=20 notes, and also checked my other automotive test gauge.

 

While I had the top = cover off, I=20 checked the cold start wiring for the zillionth time, and also clipped a = test=20 lead to it so I could monitor the voltage. =20 Everything was hooked up correctly, and it did exactly what it = was=20 supposed to do during the runs. =20 Turning on and off the secondary switch while at low power = didn’t make=20 any difference, so all that is fine. =20

 

Re-installed the = better primary=20 connectors, and found no problems with them during the runs. 

 

The test=20 Tracy wanted me to perform = was to=20 swap the primary and secondary wires again, and make note of which set = of=20 injectors is rich or lean.  = So, I=20 did this, and got the following results:

 

Normal-=20 smooth, turning off and on secondary makes no diff at low power.

Primary sw off- = (using primaries)=20 smooth with mixture turned down to about 8:00 position.

Secondary sw off- = (using=20 secondaries) smooth, with mixture turned up to 2:00 position.

 

This confirms that = the MSD=20 injectors, that are installed in the secondary position are flowing far = less=20 fuel than they should be.  = Not sure=20 what I’ll do about this now. 

 

Also, during this = run, I had my=20 automotive test gauge hooked up to the B controller, while watching the = boost=20 gauge on the A controller.  = There=20 was always about a 3 in vacuum difference between the two, and I chalked = it up=20 to crappy gauges. 

 

Tracy=20 mentioned that the preference was to have the smaller injectors as the=20 primaries, so I left the wires swapped, so the MDS injectors would = operate as=20 the secondaries.   I = proceeded=20 to try to tune the engine with this setup. =20 With the exception of the transition point, the engine is now = running=20 pretty darned well on the A controller. =20 I then tried to tune the B controller, and found that I = couldn’t make it=20 idle, or run at low power, though it’s fine at higher power.  It acts as if it’s in = the transition at=20 idle and just above, and I believe that’s the case.  I’m starting to think = there really IS a=20 2-3 in difference in vacuum between the two ports on the TB.  Since I swapped those ports at = the=20 beginning of the day, I’m now seeing on the B controller, the = unruly behavior=20 that was happening before on the A controller, and A is behaving = better.  I’ll T these two ports = together next, as=20 Tracy suggested = earlier.   

 

Finally, the Tiny = Tach is NOT=20 working properly again.  = It’s fine=20 at low rpm, but wanders around at high rpm.  I couldn’t get any = stable reading at=20 full power.  Gotta find = another=20 tach, preferably one that works with a 5V pulse.

 

So, to recap.  There is defiantly a huge = difference in=20 the flow rate of the primary Mazda 550 injectors, and the MSD-2013 525=20 injectors.  There’s = NO way these are=20 flowing 525 cc/min.   = This is=20 causing a big problem at transition. =20 At that throttle setting, it’s very rough, and I = can’t do anything to=20 help with the mixture.  = Turning it=20 up is worse, and turning it down is worse. =20 I don’t see how I can tune this out.  The only option is replacing = the=20 injectors, or trying to set the transition below idle, so all 4 = injectors are on=20 all the time.  Probably = going to try=20 this next.

 

The other problem is = that my=20 transition is falling right around idle and low throttle on the B=20 controller.  T-ing the = ports=20 together should at least make both controllers behave the same.   =20

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