X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail04.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.185] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTPS id 613802 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 24 Jul 2005 17:47:46 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.185; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-236-101-218.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.101.218]) by mail04.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j6OLkuZU009615 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:46:58 +1000 Message-ID: <004b01c59099$55cd4880$da65ecdc@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Mazda Factory O rings vs TES O rings Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 07:47:48 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01C590ED.26BBD4E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C590ED.26BBD4E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Kelly, I'm with you 100% and wouldn't be going to all this = trouble if I weren't convinced there was an advantage AND it was helpful = to other builders down the track. IGNORE the 'Nay Sayers', personally I didn't think it was worth the = response. This is a site where people who intend flying behind one of these = engines develop strategies for, at the very least, some 'piece of mind'. = Those interested in road racing could have other priorities - who would = know, or care for that matter. This discussion is well within the discussion bounds as it adds the = reliability of engines. If I felt that it wouldn't benefit other = builders I would have discussed this with you - OFF SITE. I'm wondering why people like Tracy Crook and Bruce Turrentine bother = with TES "O" rings. I think they may have a better idea - don't you! George ( down under) Leon and all, For my part I just like the fact that the TES seals will take = more heat and pressure and reportedly are reusable if undamaged.........Anything I can do economically to upgrade my 13B to extend its life for use at power levels (75 to 100 percent) it was not probably not designed for I am willing to do........After all it is our butts we are putting in = these airplanes........IMHO.........That being said I do appreciate the = opinions=20 of all in the group !! -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 -------------- Original message from "Leon Promet" = : --------------=20 Hey Guys, Enough already! I'm with Dave on this TES O ring business, but I'm = even MORE radical ... =20 If the factory O rings were good enough to win Le Mans 24 Hr, it = would seem that they SHOULD be good enough for our purposes. Moreover, = they seem to last 20 odd years and over 500,000 km in cars that are well = looked after and serviced regularly and the cooling systems kept clean. = The only time I've EVER seen Factory O rings fail (since the mid = '70s) is if the engine has been "cooked", (and then the rotor housings = are warped), or the rotor housings have corroded (due to lack of a = regular coolant changes), and in both these failure modes, the rotor = housings are throw-aways anyhow. Not the O ring's fault that the engine = leaks water - OIF (Operator Induced Failure). So seriously, can someone PLEASE tell me WHY you all want to use = TES O rings instead of the factory ones?? Apart from price, (which = seems to be an issue with some), and the fact that the big bearded guy = at that "other" place says you should - so why don't you guys just ask = HIM for the relevant part # - he knows EVERYTHING).=20 Still, for the life of me, I just can't see what technical = advantages there are (apart from busting the O ring grooves if you = happen to get the sizing wrong). I'm afraid that it has totally escaped = me. Cheers, Leon ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C590ED.26BBD4E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you Kelly, I'm with you 100% and = wouldn't be=20 going to all this trouble if I weren't convinced there was an advantage = AND it=20 was helpful to other builders down the track.
 
IGNORE the 'Nay Sayers', personally I = didn't think=20 it was worth the response.
 
This is a site where people who intend = flying=20 behind one of these engines develop strategies for, at the very = least,=20 some 'piece of mind'. Those interested in road racing could have = other=20 priorities - who would know, or care for that matter.
 
This discussion is well within the = discussion=20 bounds as it adds the reliability of engines. If I felt that = it=20 wouldn't benefit other builders I would have discussed this with you - = OFF=20 SITE.
 
I'm wondering why people like Tracy = Crook and Bruce=20 Turrentine bother with TES "O" rings. I think they may have a better = idea -=20 don't you!
 
George ( down under)
Leon and all,
      For my part  I just like the = fact=20 that the TES seals will take more heat
and pressure and reportedly are reusable if=20 undamaged.........Anything
I can do economically to upgrade my 13B to extend its life for = use=20 at
power levels (75 to 100 percent) it was not probably not designed = for
I am willing to do........After all it is our butts we are = putting in=20 these
airplanes........IMHO.........That being said I do = appreciate the=20 opinions
of all in the group !!
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




--------------=20 Original message from "Leon Promet" <leonp@pacific.net.au>:=20 --------------

Hey Guys,
 
Enough already!  I'm with Dave = on this TES=20 O ring business,  but I'm even MORE radical ...   =20
 
If the factory O = rings were good=20 enough to win Le Mans 24 Hr,  it would seem that they SHOULD be = good=20 enough for our purposes.  Moreover,  they seem to last 20 = odd=20 years and over 500,000 km in cars that are well looked after and = serviced=20 regularly and the cooling systems kept clean. 
 
The only time I've EVER = seen Factory O=20 rings fail (since the mid '70s) is if the engine has been=20 "cooked",  (and then the rotor housings are warped),  or = the rotor=20 housings have corroded (due to lack of a regular coolant = changes),=20  and in both these failure modes,  the rotor housings are=20 throw-aways anyhow.  Not the O ring's fault that the engine = leaks water=20 - OIF (Operator Induced Failure).
 
So seriously,  can someone = PLEASE tell me=20 WHY you all want to use TES O rings instead of the factory = ones?? Apart=20 from price,  (which seems to be an issue with some),  and = the fact=20 that the big bearded guy at that "other" place says you should = - so why=20 don't you guys just ask HIM for the relevant part # - he knows = EVERYTHING).=20
 
Still, for the life of = me,  I=20 just can't see what technical advantages there are (apart from = busting=20 the O ring grooves if you happen to get the sizing wrong).  I'm = afraid=20 that it has totally escaped me.
 
Cheers,
 
Leon
 
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