X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [216.52.245.18] (HELO ispwestemail2.mdeinc.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTP id 611248 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:49:12 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.52.245.18; envelope-from=wschertz@ispwest.com Received: from 7n7z201 (unverified [63.13.186.92]) by ispwestemail2.mdeinc.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.1.361.21) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:48:19 -0700 Message-ID: <012201c58e70$311cf5b0$0400000a@7n7z201> From: "William" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: TES "O" Rings Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:48:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011F_01C58E46.46DFBC90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011F_01C58E46.46DFBC90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The teflon coated silicon o-rings do grow with temperture. Someone = posted a picture (several years ago) of how one that did not have = sufficient room to expand broke out the cast iron o-ring groove Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kelly Troyer=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: TES "O" Rings George, Just what I was looking for !! Now I wonder what percentage of = the=20 groove area that "Creavy" says needs to be filled and do the teflon- silicon O-rings expand (grow) under heat ?? -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 -------------- Original message from "George Lendich" = : --------------=20 Kelly, I see what you mean - a quick check of areas reveal a ratio of area = of grove to "O" ring cross sectional area as:- 1. .093 =3D 1: .924343 ( for the .065x .113) proven fit - outer "O" = ring!! 2. .098 =3D 1: .859 ( for the .065x .135) OK 3. .1 =3D 1: .8945868( for the .065x .135) OK 4. .103 =3D 1: .9490484 ( for the .065x.135) TOO BIG. Given the crush 'cross section' is different, but the Teflon flows = under that pressure, 2 and 3 should be OK - I'm using your dimension = measurements. George ( down under) George and All, I just realized I did not answer your question.......I = wanted to find a=20 cross section of the PFA-SIL that was close to the .098 as called = out in earlier posts for the inner coolent O-ring......I measured the = coolent O-ring grooves of my housings........Both inner and outer grooves measured .065 thousands deep.......Width of the inner was.135 = thousands and width of the outer was .113 thousands........Now can someone = much better in math than me figure what diameter of O-ring can we use = in the inner groove wthout causing a hydraulic rupture......The inner coolent = O-ring sees more heat and pressure than the outer O-ring !! On paper it = appears that a .093 thousands O-ring has enough crush according to the depth of = the groove but it is free to rattle around in the .135 = width.........IMHO -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 -------------- Original message from keltro@att.net (Kelly = Troyer): --------------=20 George, I was trying to find out what diameters (cross section) of = the high temp (500 degree f) PFA-SIL was available.........I wonder if the = (450 degree f) FEP-SIL might be good enough for the coolent O-rings but use the = high temp for the rotor side seal O-rings........If the coolent seals = ever see even=20 450 degrees the aluminum rotor hsgs will probably start to crush = !! "Opinions" -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 -------------- Original message from "George Lendich" = : --------------=20 Kelly, What was that in relation to. George ( down under) Group, More info from "Creavey"=20 -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 From: "Jeff Chrysler" Save = Address Reminder=20 =20 To: "Kelly Troyer" =20 Subject: RE: Sil-PFA .098 availability=20 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:12:27 +0000 [View = Source]=20 =20 PFA is available in .103" cross section. =20 Jeff =20 -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kelly Troyer [mailto:keltro@att.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:48 AM To: Jeff Chrysler Subject: RE: Sil-PFA .098 availability =20 Jeff, Thanks Jeff........What diameters are available = in PFA-SIL........ .100 would probably work if available. =20 Kelly Troyer =20 ------=_NextPart_000_011F_01C58E46.46DFBC90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The teflon coated silicon o-rings do = grow with=20 temperture. Someone posted a picture (several years ago) of how one that = did not=20 have sufficient room to expand broke out the cast iron o-ring=20 groove
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kelly = Troyer
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 = 10:34=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: TES = "O"=20 Rings

George,
     Just what I was looking for !! Now = I wonder=20 what percentage of the
groove area that "Creavy" says needs to be filled and do the=20 teflon-
silicon O-rings expand (grow) under heat ??
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




--------------=20 Original message from "George Lendich" <lendich@optusnet.com.au>: = --------------

Kelly,
I see what you mean - a quick check = of areas=20 reveal a ratio of area of grove  to "O" ring = cross=20 sectional area as:-
1. .093 =3D 1: .924343 ( for the = .065x .113)=20 proven fit - outer "O" ring!!
 
2. .098 =3D 1: = .859    =20   ( for the .065x .135) OK
3. .1    =3D  = 1: .8945868(=20 for the .065x .135) OK
4. .103 =3D 1: .9490484 ( for the = .065x.135) TOO=20 BIG.
 
Given the crush 'cross section' is = different,=20 but the Teflon flows under that pressure, 2 and 3 should be OK = - I'm=20 using your dimension measurements.
 
George ( down under)
George and All,
       I just realized I did = not answer=20 your question.......I wanted to find a
cross section of the PFA-SIL that was close to the .098 as = called=20 out
in earlier posts for the inner coolent O-ring......I measured = the=20 coolent
O-ring grooves of my housings........Both inner and outer=20 grooves
measured .065 thousands deep.......Width of the inner was.135 = thousands
and width of the outer was .113 thousands........Now can = someone=20 much
better in math than me figure what diameter of O-ring = can we use=20 in the inner
groove wthout causing a hydraulic rupture......The inner = coolent=20 O-ring sees
more heat and pressure than the outer O-ring !! On paper it = appears=20 that
a .093 thousands O-ring has enough crush according to the = depth of=20 the
groove but it is free to rattle around in the .135=20 width.........IMHO
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




--------------=20 Original message from keltro@att.net (Kelly Troyer): = --------------=20

George,
     I was trying to find out what = diameters=20 (cross section) of  the high temp
(500 degree f) PFA-SIL was available.........I wonder if = the (450=20 degree f)
FEP-SIL might be good enough for the coolent O-rings but = use the=20 high
temp for the rotor side seal O-rings........If the coolent = seals=20 ever see even
450 degrees the aluminum rotor hsgs will probably start to = crush=20 !!
 
"Opinions"
--
Kelly Troyer =
Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




--------------=20 Original message from "George Lendich"=20 <lendich@optusnet.com.au>: --------------

Kelly,
What was that in relation=20 to.
George ( down = under)
Group,
   More info from "Creavey"
--
Kelly Troyer =
Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2



From:   
"Jeff Chrysler" <jeff@creavey.com>     3D"" Save = Address     3D"" Reminder
To:    "Kelly Troyer" <keltro@att.net>
Subject:    RE: Sil-PFA .098 = availability
Date:    Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:12:27=20 +0000   [View = Source]

3D""=20

PFA=20 is available in .103=94 cross=20 section.

 

Jeff

 

From: Kelly = Troyer=20 [mailto:keltro@att.net]
Sent: Thursday, = July 21,=20 2005 11:48 AM
To: = Jeff Chrysler
Subject: RE: = Sil-PFA .098=20 availability

 

   =20 Jeff,

      Thanks=20 Jeff........What diameters are available in=20 PFA-SIL........  = .100

would  probably work if = available.

 

  Kelly=20 = Troyer

=
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