X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mtiwmhc12.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.116] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTP id 611227 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:31:54 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.131.116; envelope-from=micallahan@worldnet.att.net Received: from unknown (170.birmingham-01-03rs.al.dial-access.att.net[12.74.162.170]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc12) with SMTP id <2005072203310411200a9651e>; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 03:31:04 +0000 Message-ID: <005901c58e6d$63ebbba0$aaa24a0c@unknown> From: "Michael D. Callahan" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - we're here to help you Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:28:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01C58E43.79168840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C58E43.79168840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, this is ANOTHER potential GOTCHA in the LSA details up here. = Technically, it says you have to be signed off BY AN INSTRUCTOR in EVERY = different aircraft you fly. The danger I see is the old guy at every = airport who has a Cub, Champ, etc... three or four old planes that fall = into LSA category and who is flying them LSA to avoid the hassle of a = medical. Now suppose he ground loops the Champ in a wind and the local FAA = guy just happens to be there. He did not have to be signed off in that = plane when he bought it 50 yrs ago and has flown it every week since = 1955. He has no LSA endorsement, right? According to this section of the = rules he is not legal. If he has a known deficiency, he is double hosed. = Again, this LSA is going to get folks burned. I think LSA is a fine way = to take both medical AND pilot certificates PERMANENTLY from pilots who = don't read the rules carefully. Be careful guys. Mike C. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 5:22 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - we're here to help you Thanks Bill, It's a crazy world! I'm moving to LS Category and RAA ( Aust) has nominated me as an = Instructor - Instructor to what/ of what I don't know. It may be because = I hold a PPL and have made enquiries in regard to the proposed new LSC. The only thing they have been able to tell me so far is that, it's = similar to the US - LSA but not the same as the current Australian = legislation doesn't allow it to be exactly the same. The weight is the same, there's no speed limit, the stall is the same = but I notice they mentioned that the stall speed had to be in landing = configuration (here in Aust). I can get the stall speed in the Vision to meet the regs but may need = to use leading edge slots, which pushes the nose way-up and landing in = that configuration limits forward visibility. I'm yet to determine if = that meets proper landing configuration - I suspect it doesn't! I'm keen to get into LSC as I've had trouble in the past getting my = medical approval due to treatment of my PTSD, attributed to my Service = in Vietnam. So I guess I'm one of those 'social leaches' who has been = forced into early retirement and doesn't deserve to fly anyway!=20 George (down under) According the the LSA rules over here, if you have *lost* your = medical, you do not qualify for LSA rules, however if you let it expire, = and move to LSA, that is okay. Peculiar, but okay. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:13 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - we're here to help you Mike, We must have different rules down here! If you lose your medical, you can still drive your car and you = only need a Car licence for Light Sport category - to my knowledge. = Although it's not due to be implemented here in Australia until = September, there could be some guidelines as you indicate. I know people with blood pressure and Diabetes lose their medical = - but doesn't stop them from driving their cars. George ( down under) IF you LOSE your medical, you can NOT indeed drive your car and = still fly a sport/light. If your medical is revoked you are through = flying anything but 103 ultralights. This is going to get a LOT of guys = fried. If you have a know diagnosed illness that would preclude you = getting a medical, you CANNOT fly a sport/light even if you have a = drivers lisence. If you have a medical and fly with a know deficiency, = it is the same as NOT having a medical, even if you do not see a doctor. = Fair or not, that's the rules and those who try to skirt the rules and = get caught are going to be in a hell of a mess. Mike C. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - we're here to help you Kevin, Being on a Disability pension don't stop you flying a plane. = It may make it harder to get a medical clearance and you won't get a = clearance if your on Medication, such as mind bending drugs e.g. Pilots = with past Depression and Bipolar can get Medicals - Paranoid = Schizophrenia is only controlled by mind bending drugs, so that one's a = NO NO! One must be upfront with the details however - some have = suggested that it's easier to lie than get a medical with past medical = conditions. I notice a lot of chaps losing their medicals for Diabetes = and Blood Pressure etc. However you can still drive a car and fly Light Sport = Category. George ( down under) Saw this in today's _New York Times_. July 20, 2005 U.S. Says 46 Pilots Lied to Obtain Their Licenses By CAROLYN MARSHALL SAN FRANCISCO, July 19 - Prosecutors in Northern California = have charged 46 pilots with lying to federal authorities to = obtain airplane licenses, in most cases not disclosing debilitating = illnesses that should have kept them grounded. The pilots, who were indicted this week by grand juries in = the eastern and northern federal districts of California, were = identified during an 18-month criminal air traffic safety investigation by the Department of Transportation and the Social Security = Administration that looked into licensed pilots who were also receiving = disability benefits and payments from the government. The investigation, initiated in July 2003, included a review = of more than 40,000 pilot licenses issued in Northern California to = determine whether there had been any misuse or abuse of Social = Security numbers. The authorities reviewed licenses held by both commercial = and private pilots and found that some license applicants claimed to be = medically fit to fly an airplane yet were simultaneously receiving = disability benefits. "The fraud and falsification allegedly committed by these = individuals is extremely serious and adversely affects the public = interest in air safety," said Nicholas Sabatini, an associate administrator = with the Federal Aviation Administration. Charles H. Lee Jr., an assistant inspector general for = investigations at the Department of Transportation, said the reviewers = first focused their investigation on 48 pilots, most of whom were = receiving disability payments for illnesses like paranoid = schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and disabling heart conditions. One case, Mr. Lee said, even involved someone who exhibited = severe suicidal tendencies. "To get their certificates, these people had to lie or = falsify paperwork," Mr. Lee said. "The F.A.A. has rules and = regulations regarding medical conditions and deemed that all 48 had = medical disabilities that would have disqualified them from holding = pilot certificates." Two cases were dropped, Mr. Lee said, one because the pilot = died. He declined to comment about whether similar investigations = were under way in other states. Of the 46 pilots that Mr. Lee said were charged, 7 held = commercial pilot certificates that would have allowed them to fly as = well as carry cargo; another 4 pilots held air transportation pilot certificates which would let them transport passengers. Of the remaining indicted pilots, 28 had private pilot = licenses, and 7 had student licenses. A charge of lying to the federal authorities carries a = penalty of up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. A charge of = falsifying records carries a penalty of up to one year in prison and a = $100,000 fine. According to court documents, the pilots who were indicted = failed to provide accurate medical history forms, as required by the = F.A.A., in some cases lying about a previous illness or claiming that = there had been no previous medical diagnosis or treatment for = conditions that the pilots knew they had. Laura Brown, a spokeswoman for the F.A.A., said that pilots = could obtain a license only after they submit oral and written = tests and current medical certificates. Those certificates can be = issued only by an aviation medical examiner registered with the agency. = Certain medical conditions would disqualify an applicant from = receiving a license. "The reason we have disqualifying conditions is to ensure = that pilots are not a danger to others, in the air or on the ground," = Ms. Brown said. Ms. Brown said that the pilots were charged with either = making false statements to a federal official or delivering to a federal = official a false written record. She added that 14 of the pilots held = active pilot licenses, which were immediately revoked. The remaining pilots had licenses that had either lapsed or = were missing current information, which would not prevent them = from flying a private plane. "It's similar to when people go out and drive cars without a = license, or drive cars when intoxicated," Ms. Brown said. "It's = illegal but they do it." At least one of the indicted pilots appeared in Federal = District Court in Sacramento on Tuesday. The remaining pilots will be = arraigned individually in the coming weeks. Kevin Lane Portland, OR e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C58E43.79168840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    George, this is ANOTHER = potential=20 GOTCHA in the LSA details up here. Technically, it says you have to be = signed=20 off BY AN INSTRUCTOR in EVERY different aircraft you fly. The danger I = see is=20 the old guy at every airport who has a Cub, Champ, etc... three or four = old=20 planes that fall into LSA category and who is flying them LSA to = avoid the=20 hassle of a medical.
    Now suppose he ground loops = the Champ=20 in a wind and the local FAA guy just happens to be there. He did not = have to be=20 signed off in that plane when he bought it 50 yrs ago and has flown it every week since 1955. He has no LSA = endorsement,=20 right? According to this section of the rules he is not legal. If he has = a known=20 deficiency, he is double hosed. Again, this LSA is going to get folks=20 burned. I think LSA is a fine way to take both medical = AND pilot=20 certificates PERMANENTLY from pilots who don't read the rules=20 carefully. Be careful guys. Mike C.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George=20 Lendich
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 = 5:22=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - = we're here=20 to help you

Thanks Bill,
It's a crazy world!
I'm moving to LS Category and RAA ( Aust) has = nominated=20 me as an Instructor - Instructor to what/ of what I don't know. = It may be=20 because I hold a PPL and have made enquiries in regard to the proposed = new=20 LSC.
 
The only thing they have been able to tell me = so far is=20 that, it's similar to the US - LSA but not the same as the current=20 Australian legislation doesn't allow it to be exactly the=20 same.
The weight is the same, there's no speed = limit, the=20 stall is the same but I notice they mentioned that the stall speed had = to be=20 in landing configuration (here in Aust).
 
I can get the stall speed in the Vision to = meet the regs=20 but may need to use leading edge slots, which pushes the nose way-up = and=20 landing in that configuration limits forward visibility. I'm yet to = determine=20 if that meets proper landing configuration - I suspect it=20 doesn't!
 
I'm keen to get into LSC as I've had trouble = in the past=20 getting my medical approval due to treatment of my PTSD, attributed to = my=20 Service in Vietnam. So I guess I'm one of those 'social leaches' who = has=20 been forced into early retirement and doesn't deserve to fly=20 anyway! 
 
George (down under)
 
 
According the the LSA rules over here, if = you have=20 *lost* your medical, you do not qualify for LSA rules, however if = you let it=20 expire, and move to LSA, that is okay. Peculiar, but = okay.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 George Lendich
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Thursday, July 21, = 2005 2:13=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = FAA - we're=20 here to help you

Mike,
We must have different rules down = here!
If you lose your medical, you can still = drive your=20 car and you only need a Car licence for Light=20 Sport category  - to my knowledge. Although it's = not due to=20 be implemented here in Australia until September, there could be = some=20 guidelines as you indicate.
I know people with blood pressure and = Diabetes lose=20 their medical - but doesn't stop them from driving their=20 cars.
George ( down under)
IF you LOSE your medical, you can NOT = indeed drive=20 your car and still fly a sport/light. If your medical is revoked = you are=20 through flying anything but 103 ultralights. This is going to = get a LOT=20 of guys fried. If you have a know diagnosed illness that would = preclude=20 you getting a medical, you CANNOT fly a sport/light even if you = have a=20 drivers lisence. If you have a medical and fly with a know = deficiency,=20 it is the same as NOT having a medical, even if you do not see a = doctor.=20 Fair or not, that's the rules and those who try to skirt the = rules and=20 get caught are going to be in a hell of a mess.  Mike=20 C.
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 George Lendich =
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Wednesday, July = 20, 2005=20 7:09 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: FAA -=20 we're here to help you

Kevin,
Being on a Disability = pension don't stop=20 you flying a plane. It may make it harder to get a medical = clearance=20 and you won't get a clearance if your on Medication, such as = mind=20 bending drugs e.g. Pilots with past Depression = and Bipolar can=20 get Medicals - Paranoid Schizophrenia is only controlled = by mind=20 bending drugs, so that one's a NO NO!
One must be upfront with the details = however -=20 some have suggested that it's easier to lie than get a medical = with=20 past medical conditions. I notice a lot of chaps losing their = medicals=20 for Diabetes and Blood Pressure etc.
 
However you can still drive a car and = fly Light=20 Sport Category.
George ( down under)
Saw this in today's _New York Times_.

July 20,=20 2005
U.S. Says 46 Pilots Lied to Obtain Their = Licenses
By=20 CAROLYN MARSHALL
SAN FRANCISCO, July 19 - Prosecutors in = Northern=20 California have
charged 46 pilots with lying to federal=20 authorities to obtain airplane
licenses, in most cases = not=20 disclosing debilitating illnesses that
should have kept = them=20 grounded.

The pilots, who were indicted this week by = grand=20 juries in the eastern
and northern federal districts of=20 California, were identified during
an 18-month criminal = air=20 traffic safety investigation by the
Department of = Transportation=20 and the Social Security Administration
that looked into = licensed=20 pilots who were also receiving disability
benefits and = payments=20 from the government.

The investigation, initiated in = July=20 2003, included a review of more
than 40,000 pilot = licenses issued=20 in Northern California to determine
whether there had = been any=20 misuse or abuse of Social Security numbers.
The = authorities=20 reviewed licenses held by both commercial and = private
pilots and=20 found that some license applicants claimed to be = medically
fit to=20 fly an airplane yet were simultaneously receiving=20 disability
benefits.

"The fraud and falsification=20 allegedly committed by these individuals
is extremely = serious and=20 adversely affects the public interest in air
safety," = said=20 Nicholas Sabatini, an associate administrator with = the
Federal=20 Aviation Administration.

Charles H. Lee Jr., an = assistant=20 inspector general for investigations
at the Department of = Transportation, said the reviewers first focused
their=20 investigation on 48 pilots, most of whom were=20 receiving
disability payments for illnesses like paranoid = schizophrenia, bipolar
disorder and disabling heart=20 conditions.

One case, Mr. Lee said, even involved = someone who=20 exhibited severe
suicidal tendencies.

"To get = their=20 certificates, these people had to lie or = falsify
paperwork," Mr.=20 Lee said. "The F.A.A. has rules and regulations
regarding = medical=20 conditions and deemed that all 48 had = medical
disabilities that=20 would have disqualified them from holding=20 pilot
certificates."

Two cases were dropped, Mr. = Lee said,=20 one because the pilot died. He
declined to comment about = whether=20 similar investigations were under
way in other = states.

Of=20 the 46 pilots that Mr. Lee said were charged, 7 held=20 commercial
pilot certificates that would have allowed = them to fly=20 as well as
carry cargo; another 4 pilots held air = transportation=20 pilot
certificates which would let them transport=20 passengers.

Of the remaining indicted pilots, 28 had = private=20 pilot licenses, and 7
had student licenses.

A = charge of=20 lying to the federal authorities carries a penalty of = up
to five=20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. A charge of=20 falsifying
records carries a penalty of up to one year in = prison=20 and a $100,000
fine.

According to court documents, = the=20 pilots who were indicted failed to
provide accurate = medical=20 history forms, as required by the F.A.A., in
some cases = lying=20 about a previous illness or claiming that there had
been = no=20 previous medical diagnosis or treatment for conditions = that
the=20 pilots knew they had.

Laura Brown, a spokeswoman for = the=20 F.A.A., said that pilots could
obtain a license only = after they=20 submit oral and written tests and
current medical = certificates.=20 Those certificates can be issued only by
an aviation = medical=20 examiner registered with the agency. Certain
medical = conditions=20 would disqualify an applicant from receiving=20 a
license.

"The reason we have disqualifying = conditions is=20 to ensure that pilots
are not a danger to others, in the = air or=20 on the ground," Ms. Brown
said.

Ms. Brown said = that the=20 pilots were charged with either making false
statements = to a=20 federal official or delivering to a federal official = a
false=20 written record. She added that 14 of the pilots held = active
pilot=20 licenses, which were immediately revoked.

The = remaining=20 pilots had licenses that had either lapsed or = were
missing=20 current information, which would not prevent them from = flying
a=20 private plane.

"It's similar to when people go out = and drive=20 cars without a license,
or drive cars when intoxicated," = Ms.=20 Brown said. "It's illegal but
they do it."

At = least one of=20 the indicted pilots appeared in Federal District Court
in = Sacramento on Tuesday. The remaining pilots will be=20 arraigned
individually in the coming weeks.
Kevin Lane  Portland, OR
e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net
 
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