X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [201.225.225.167] (HELO cwpanama.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTP id 611165 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:35:30 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=201.225.225.167; envelope-from=rijakits@cwpanama.net Received: from [201.224.93.110] (HELO usuarioq3efog0) by frontend1.cwpanama.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 46154549 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:47:59 -0500 Message-ID: <01f701c58e5d$8016ae80$6e5de0c9@usuarioq3efog0> From: "rijakits" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - we're here to help you Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:34:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01F3_01C58E33.96EFA050" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01F3_01C58E33.96EFA050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Isn't the medical the definite issue? I had/have the opinion, that unless you do something really stupid/bad you never loose your license/certificate (unless revoked for whatever reason). The medical is also just a general look at your health to get an opinion about your general impression. You are actually NOT allowed to fly (even if you hold current pilot and medical certificates) IF you are ill (under the influence of certain medication, flue, fatigued, etc.) Some FAR spells it even out, don't ask the number, I didn't fly FAR's for a while now. It is the same with cars, somewhere inthe traffic regs it will tell you, that you cannot drive if seriously ill. However the "problem" here is, that YOU have to decide WHEN this is the case, and not some doctor - it comes down to common sense I guess. However if a schizophrenic get's disability and then goes flying, maybe even as a job - something is very out of line!! Thomas J. ----- Original Message ----- From: George Lendich To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 5:22 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - we're here to help you Thanks Bill, It's a crazy world! I'm moving to LS Category and RAA ( Aust) has nominated me as an Instructor - Instructor to what/ of what I don't know. It may be because I hold a PPL and have made enquiries in regard to the proposed new LSC. The only thing they have been able to tell me so far is that, it's similar to the US - LSA but not the same as the current Australian legislation doesn't allow it to be exactly the same. The weight is the same, there's no speed limit, the stall is the same but I notice they mentioned that the stall speed had to be in landing configuration (here in Aust). I can get the stall speed in the Vision to meet the regs but may need to use leading edge slots, which pushes the nose way-up and landing in that configuration limits forward visibility. I'm yet to determine if that meets proper landing configuration - I suspect it doesn't! I'm keen to get into LSC as I've had trouble in the past getting my medical approval due to treatment of my PTSD, attributed to my Service in Vietnam. So I guess I'm one of those 'social leaches' who has been forced into early retirement and doesn't deserve to fly anyway! George (down under) According the the LSA rules over here, if you have *lost* your medical, you do not qualify for LSA rules, however if you let it expire, and move to LSA, that is okay. Peculiar, but okay. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message ----- From: George Lendich To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:13 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - we're here to help you Mike, We must have different rules down here! If you lose your medical, you can still drive your car and you only need a Car licence for Light Sport category - to my knowledge. Although it's not due to be implemented here in Australia until September, there could be some guidelines as you indicate. I know people with blood pressure and Diabetes lose their medical - but doesn't stop them from driving their cars. George ( down under) IF you LOSE your medical, you can NOT indeed drive your car and still fly a sport/light. If your medical is revoked you are through flying anything but 103 ultralights. This is going to get a LOT of guys fried. If you have a know diagnosed illness that would preclude you getting a medical, you CANNOT fly a sport/light even if you have a drivers lisence. If you have a medical and fly with a know deficiency, it is the same as NOT having a medical, even if you do not see a doctor. Fair or not, that's the rules and those who try to skirt the rules and get caught are going to be in a hell of a mess. Mike C. ----- Original Message ----- From: George Lendich To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - we're here to help you Kevin, Being on a Disability pension don't stop you flying a plane. It may make it harder to get a medical clearance and you won't get a clearance if your on Medication, such as mind bending drugs e.g. Pilots with past Depression and Bipolar can get Medicals - Paranoid Schizophrenia is only controlled by mind bending drugs, so that one's a NO NO! One must be upfront with the details however - some have suggested that it's easier to lie than get a medical with past medical conditions. I notice a lot of chaps losing their medicals for Diabetes and Blood Pressure etc. However you can still drive a car and fly Light Sport Category. George ( down under) Saw this in today's _New York Times_. July 20, 2005 U.S. Says 46 Pilots Lied to Obtain Their Licenses By CAROLYN MARSHALL SAN FRANCISCO, July 19 - Prosecutors in Northern California have charged 46 pilots with lying to federal authorities to obtain airplane licenses, in most cases not disclosing debilitating illnesses that should have kept them grounded. The pilots, who were indicted this week by grand juries in the eastern and northern federal districts of California, were identified during an 18-month criminal air traffic safety investigation by the Department of Transportation and the Social Security Administration that looked into licensed pilots who were also receiving disability benefits and payments from the government. The investigation, initiated in July 2003, included a review of more than 40,000 pilot licenses issued in Northern California to determine whether there had been any misuse or abuse of Social Security numbers. The authorities reviewed licenses held by both commercial and private pilots and found that some license applicants claimed to be medically fit to fly an airplane yet were simultaneously receiving disability benefits. "The fraud and falsification allegedly committed by these individuals is extremely serious and adversely affects the public interest in air safety," said Nicholas Sabatini, an associate administrator with the Federal Aviation Administration. Charles H. Lee Jr., an assistant inspector general for investigations at the Department of Transportation, said the reviewers first focused their investigation on 48 pilots, most of whom were receiving disability payments for illnesses like paranoid schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and disabling heart conditions. One case, Mr. Lee said, even involved someone who exhibited severe suicidal tendencies. "To get their certificates, these people had to lie or falsify paperwork," Mr. Lee said. "The F.A.A. has rules and regulations regarding medical conditions and deemed that all 48 had medical disabilities that would have disqualified them from holding pilot certificates." Two cases were dropped, Mr. Lee said, one because the pilot died. He declined to comment about whether similar investigations were under way in other states. Of the 46 pilots that Mr. Lee said were charged, 7 held commercial pilot certificates that would have allowed them to fly as well as carry cargo; another 4 pilots held air transportation pilot certificates which would let them transport passengers. Of the remaining indicted pilots, 28 had private pilot licenses, and 7 had student licenses. A charge of lying to the federal authorities carries a penalty of up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. A charge of falsifying records carries a penalty of up to one year in prison and a $100,000 fine. According to court documents, the pilots who were indicted failed to provide accurate medical history forms, as required by the F.A.A., in some cases lying about a previous illness or claiming that there had been no previous medical diagnosis or treatment for conditions that the pilots knew they had. Laura Brown, a spokeswoman for the F.A.A., said that pilots could obtain a license only after they submit oral and written tests and current medical certificates. Those certificates can be issued only by an aviation medical examiner registered with the agency. Certain medical conditions would disqualify an applicant from receiving a license. "The reason we have disqualifying conditions is to ensure that pilots are not a danger to others, in the air or on the ground," Ms. Brown said. Ms. Brown said that the pilots were charged with either making false statements to a federal official or delivering to a federal official a false written record. She added that 14 of the pilots held active pilot licenses, which were immediately revoked. The remaining pilots had licenses that had either lapsed or were missing current information, which would not prevent them from flying a private plane. "It's similar to when people go out and drive cars without a license, or drive cars when intoxicated," Ms. Brown said. "It's illegal but they do it." At least one of the indicted pilots appeared in Federal District Court in Sacramento on Tuesday. The remaining pilots will be arraigned individually in the coming weeks. Kevin Lane Portland, OR e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net ------=_NextPart_000_01F3_01C58E33.96EFA050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Isn't the medical the definite = issue?
I had/have the opinion, that unless you = do=20 something really stupid/bad you never loose your license/certificate = (unless=20 revoked for whatever reason).
The medical is also just a general look = at your=20 health to get an opinion about your general impression.
You are actually NOT allowed to fly = (even if you=20 hold current pilot and medical certificates) IF you are ill (under = the=20 influence of certain medication, flue, fatigued, etc.) Some FAR spells = it even=20 out, don't ask the number, I didn't fly FAR's for a while = now.
 
It is the same with cars, somewhere = inthe traffic=20 regs it will tell you, that you cannot drive if seriously = ill.
However the "problem" here is, that YOU = have to=20 decide WHEN this is the case, and not some doctor - it comes down to = common=20 sense I guess.
 
However if a schizophrenic get's = disability and=20 then goes flying, maybe even as a job - something is very out of=20 line!!
 
Thomas J.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George=20 Lendich
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 = 5:22=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - = we're here=20 to help you

Thanks Bill,
It's a crazy world!
I'm moving to LS Category and RAA ( Aust) has = nominated=20 me as an Instructor - Instructor to what/ of what I don't know. = It may be=20 because I hold a PPL and have made enquiries in regard to the proposed = new=20 LSC.
 
The only thing they have been able to tell me = so far is=20 that, it's similar to the US - LSA but not the same as the current=20 Australian legislation doesn't allow it to be exactly the=20 same.
The weight is the same, there's no speed = limit, the=20 stall is the same but I notice they mentioned that the stall speed had = to be=20 in landing configuration (here in Aust).
 
I can get the stall speed in the Vision to = meet the regs=20 but may need to use leading edge slots, which pushes the nose way-up = and=20 landing in that configuration limits forward visibility. I'm yet to = determine=20 if that meets proper landing configuration - I suspect it=20 doesn't!
 
I'm keen to get into LSC as I've had trouble = in the past=20 getting my medical approval due to treatment of my PTSD, attributed to = my=20 Service in Vietnam. So I guess I'm one of those 'social leaches' who = has=20 been forced into early retirement and doesn't deserve to fly=20 anyway! 
 
George (down under)
 
 
According the the LSA rules over here, if = you have=20 *lost* your medical, you do not qualify for LSA rules, however if = you let it=20 expire, and move to LSA, that is okay. Peculiar, but = okay.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 George Lendich
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Thursday, July 21, = 2005 2:13=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = FAA - we're=20 here to help you

Mike,
We must have different rules down = here!
If you lose your medical, you can still = drive your=20 car and you only need a Car licence for Light=20 Sport category  - to my knowledge. Although it's = not due to=20 be implemented here in Australia until September, there could be = some=20 guidelines as you indicate.
I know people with blood pressure and = Diabetes lose=20 their medical - but doesn't stop them from driving their=20 cars.
George ( down under)
IF you LOSE your medical, you can NOT = indeed drive=20 your car and still fly a sport/light. If your medical is revoked = you are=20 through flying anything but 103 ultralights. This is going to = get a LOT=20 of guys fried. If you have a know diagnosed illness that would = preclude=20 you getting a medical, you CANNOT fly a sport/light even if you = have a=20 drivers lisence. If you have a medical and fly with a know = deficiency,=20 it is the same as NOT having a medical, even if you do not see a = doctor.=20 Fair or not, that's the rules and those who try to skirt the = rules and=20 get caught are going to be in a hell of a mess.  Mike=20 C.
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 George Lendich =
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Wednesday, July = 20, 2005=20 7:09 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: FAA -=20 we're here to help you

Kevin,
Being on a Disability = pension don't stop=20 you flying a plane. It may make it harder to get a medical = clearance=20 and you won't get a clearance if your on Medication, such as = mind=20 bending drugs e.g. Pilots with past Depression = and Bipolar can=20 get Medicals - Paranoid Schizophrenia is only controlled = by mind=20 bending drugs, so that one's a NO NO!
One must be upfront with the details = however -=20 some have suggested that it's easier to lie than get a medical = with=20 past medical conditions. I notice a lot of chaps losing their = medicals=20 for Diabetes and Blood Pressure etc.
 
However you can still drive a car and = fly Light=20 Sport Category.
George ( down under)
Saw this in today's _New York Times_.

July 20,=20 2005
U.S. Says 46 Pilots Lied to Obtain Their = Licenses
By=20 CAROLYN MARSHALL
SAN FRANCISCO, July 19 - Prosecutors in = Northern=20 California have
charged 46 pilots with lying to federal=20 authorities to obtain airplane
licenses, in most cases = not=20 disclosing debilitating illnesses that
should have kept = them=20 grounded.

The pilots, who were indicted this week by = grand=20 juries in the eastern
and northern federal districts of=20 California, were identified during
an 18-month criminal = air=20 traffic safety investigation by the
Department of = Transportation=20 and the Social Security Administration
that looked into = licensed=20 pilots who were also receiving disability
benefits and = payments=20 from the government.

The investigation, initiated in = July=20 2003, included a review of more
than 40,000 pilot = licenses issued=20 in Northern California to determine
whether there had = been any=20 misuse or abuse of Social Security numbers.
The = authorities=20 reviewed licenses held by both commercial and = private
pilots and=20 found that some license applicants claimed to be = medically
fit to=20 fly an airplane yet were simultaneously receiving=20 disability
benefits.

"The fraud and falsification=20 allegedly committed by these individuals
is extremely = serious and=20 adversely affects the public interest in air
safety," = said=20 Nicholas Sabatini, an associate administrator with = the
Federal=20 Aviation Administration.

Charles H. Lee Jr., an = assistant=20 inspector general for investigations
at the Department of = Transportation, said the reviewers first focused
their=20 investigation on 48 pilots, most of whom were=20 receiving
disability payments for illnesses like paranoid = schizophrenia, bipolar
disorder and disabling heart=20 conditions.

One case, Mr. Lee said, even involved = someone who=20 exhibited severe
suicidal tendencies.

"To get = their=20 certificates, these people had to lie or = falsify
paperwork," Mr.=20 Lee said. "The F.A.A. has rules and regulations
regarding = medical=20 conditions and deemed that all 48 had = medical
disabilities that=20 would have disqualified them from holding=20 pilot
certificates."

Two cases were dropped, Mr. = Lee said,=20 one because the pilot died. He
declined to comment about = whether=20 similar investigations were under
way in other = states.

Of=20 the 46 pilots that Mr. Lee said were charged, 7 held=20 commercial
pilot certificates that would have allowed = them to fly=20 as well as
carry cargo; another 4 pilots held air = transportation=20 pilot
certificates which would let them transport=20 passengers.

Of the remaining indicted pilots, 28 had = private=20 pilot licenses, and 7
had student licenses.

A = charge of=20 lying to the federal authorities carries a penalty of = up
to five=20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. A charge of=20 falsifying
records carries a penalty of up to one year in = prison=20 and a $100,000
fine.

According to court documents, = the=20 pilots who were indicted failed to
provide accurate = medical=20 history forms, as required by the F.A.A., in
some cases = lying=20 about a previous illness or claiming that there had
been = no=20 previous medical diagnosis or treatment for conditions = that
the=20 pilots knew they had.

Laura Brown, a spokeswoman for = the=20 F.A.A., said that pilots could
obtain a license only = after they=20 submit oral and written tests and
current medical = certificates.=20 Those certificates can be issued only by
an aviation = medical=20 examiner registered with the agency. Certain
medical = conditions=20 would disqualify an applicant from receiving=20 a
license.

"The reason we have disqualifying = conditions is=20 to ensure that pilots
are not a danger to others, in the = air or=20 on the ground," Ms. Brown
said.

Ms. Brown said = that the=20 pilots were charged with either making false
statements = to a=20 federal official or delivering to a federal official = a
false=20 written record. She added that 14 of the pilots held = active
pilot=20 licenses, which were immediately revoked.

The = remaining=20 pilots had licenses that had either lapsed or = were
missing=20 current information, which would not prevent them from = flying
a=20 private plane.

"It's similar to when people go out = and drive=20 cars without a license,
or drive cars when intoxicated," = Ms.=20 Brown said. "It's illegal but
they do it."

At = least one of=20 the indicted pilots appeared in Federal District Court
in = Sacramento on Tuesday. The remaining pilots will be=20 arraigned
individually in the coming weeks.
Kevin Lane  Portland, OR
e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net
 
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