X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail10.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.191] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTPS id 610056 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 03:05:06 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.191; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-236-108-201.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.108.201]) by mail10.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j6L74Cpf011098 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:04:16 +1000 Message-ID: <003e01c58dc2$82e86f90$c96cecdc@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - we're here to help you Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:04:58 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01C58E16.52FC7A70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C58E16.52FC7A70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike,=20 I understand you point of view! This happens down here as well!! George (down under) Dave, George may not be aware of the Social Security frauds we have. I = had a friend who was a doctor's assistant for an orthopedic surgeon. The = stories he told made me so mad I couldn't see straight. Guys on disability who would whine and complain that they couldn't = work due to severe back pain. Docs would load them up with prescription = pain killers, paid by insurance. Same guys would have calloused hands = and nice suntans... been running a cash-only lawn service company on the = side. A couple of these low-lifes got caught on video and lost their = benefits. I agree that a pilot, especially a commercial pilot cannot be on = disability and still be well enough to fly for hire. The situation on = the medical is plenty clear. You give false info and get caught, you = will be in trouble. Mike C. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David Leonard=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:00 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA - we're here to help you George, that is a bunch of BS!! If you are so disabled that you are = completely unable to contribute to society and hold down a job, then you = are too disabled to be flying a plane, especially with a commercial = rating. Are these people "DISABLED" or not. I mean really, if your = mental or other disorder means you just can't show up to work each day, = then I don't want you flying over my house. Lets face it. These people = are scam artists, living off the rest of us who put in our 60 hrs/wk.=20 ...I'm so crazy I can't show up to work so you all must pay me, but = I seem to do fine flying passengers around the sky... =20 =20 Dave Leonard =20 On 7/20/05, George Lendich wrote:=20 Kevin, Being on a Disability pension don't stop you flying a plane. It = may make it harder to get a medical clearance and you won't get a = clearance if your on Medication, such as mind bending drugs e.g. Pilots = with past Depression and Bipolar can get Medicals - Paranoid = Schizophrenia is only controlled by mind bending drugs, so that one's a = NO NO!=20 One must be upfront with the details however - some have suggested = that it's easier to lie than get a medical with past medical conditions. = I notice a lot of chaps losing their medicals for Diabetes and Blood = Pressure etc.=20 However you can still drive a car and fly Light Sport Category. George ( down under) Saw this in today's _New York Times_. July 20, 2005 U.S. Says 46 Pilots Lied to Obtain Their Licenses By CAROLYN MARSHALL SAN FRANCISCO, July 19 - Prosecutors in Northern California have charged 46 pilots with lying to federal authorities to obtain = airplane=20 licenses, in most cases not disclosing debilitating illnesses = that should have kept them grounded. The pilots, who were indicted this week by grand juries in the = eastern and northern federal districts of California, were identified = during=20 an 18-month criminal air traffic safety investigation by the Department of Transportation and the Social Security = Administration that looked into licensed pilots who were also receiving = disability benefits and payments from the government.=20 The investigation, initiated in July 2003, included a review of = more than 40,000 pilot licenses issued in Northern California to = determine whether there had been any misuse or abuse of Social Security = numbers.=20 The authorities reviewed licenses held by both commercial and = private pilots and found that some license applicants claimed to be = medically fit to fly an airplane yet were simultaneously receiving = disability benefits. "The fraud and falsification allegedly committed by these = individuals is extremely serious and adversely affects the public interest = in air safety," said Nicholas Sabatini, an associate administrator with = the=20 Federal Aviation Administration. Charles H. Lee Jr., an assistant inspector general for = investigations at the Department of Transportation, said the reviewers first = focused their investigation on 48 pilots, most of whom were receiving=20 disability payments for illnesses like paranoid schizophrenia, = bipolar disorder and disabling heart conditions. One case, Mr. Lee said, even involved someone who exhibited = severe suicidal tendencies. "To get their certificates, these people had to lie or falsify paperwork," Mr. Lee said. "The F.A.A. has rules and regulations regarding medical conditions and deemed that all 48 had medical disabilities that would have disqualified them from holding = pilot=20 certificates." Two cases were dropped, Mr. Lee said, one because the pilot = died. He declined to comment about whether similar investigations were = under way in other states. Of the 46 pilots that Mr. Lee said were charged, 7 held = commercial=20 pilot certificates that would have allowed them to fly as well = as carry cargo; another 4 pilots held air transportation pilot certificates which would let them transport passengers. Of the remaining indicted pilots, 28 had private pilot licenses, = and 7=20 had student licenses. A charge of lying to the federal authorities carries a penalty = of up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. A charge of = falsifying records carries a penalty of up to one year in prison and a = $100,000=20 fine. According to court documents, the pilots who were indicted = failed to provide accurate medical history forms, as required by the = F.A.A., in some cases lying about a previous illness or claiming that there = had=20 been no previous medical diagnosis or treatment for conditions = that the pilots knew they had. Laura Brown, a spokeswoman for the F.A.A., said that pilots = could obtain a license only after they submit oral and written tests = and=20 current medical certificates. Those certificates can be issued = only by an aviation medical examiner registered with the agency. Certain medical conditions would disqualify an applicant from receiving = a license.=20 "The reason we have disqualifying conditions is to ensure that = pilots are not a danger to others, in the air or on the ground," Ms. = Brown said. Ms. Brown said that the pilots were charged with either making = false=20 statements to a federal official or delivering to a federal = official a false written record. She added that 14 of the pilots held = active pilot licenses, which were immediately revoked. The remaining pilots had licenses that had either lapsed or were = missing current information, which would not prevent them from = flying a private plane. "It's similar to when people go out and drive cars without a = license, or drive cars when intoxicated," Ms. Brown said. "It's illegal = but=20 they do it." At least one of the indicted pilots appeared in Federal District = Court in Sacramento on Tuesday. The remaining pilots will be arraigned individually in the coming weeks. Kevin Lane Portland, OR e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net =20 --=20 Dave Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html=20 http://members.aol.com/vp4skydoc/index.html ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C58E16.52FC7A70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mike,
I understand you point of view! This = happens down=20 here as well!!
George (down under)
Dave,
    George may not be aware of the = Social=20 Security frauds we have. I had a friend who was a doctor's assistant = for an=20 orthopedic surgeon. The stories he told made me so mad I couldn't = see=20 straight.
    Guys on disability who would = whine and=20 complain that they couldn't work due to severe back pain. Docs would = load them=20 up with prescription pain killers, paid by insurance. Same guys = would=20 have calloused hands and nice suntans... been running a cash-only lawn = service=20 company on the side. A couple of these low-lifes got caught on = video and=20 lost their benefits.
    I agree that a pilot, = especially a=20 commercial pilot cannot be on disability and still be well enough to = fly for=20 hire. The situation on the medical is plenty clear. You give false = info and=20 get caught, you will be in trouble. Mike C.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 David=20 Leonard
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, = 2005 11:00=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FAA = - we're=20 here to help you

George, that is a bunch of BS!!  If you are so disabled = that you=20 are completely unable to contribute to society and hold down a job, = then you=20 are too disabled to be flying a plane, especially with a commercial=20 rating.  Are these people "DISABLED" or not.  I mean = really, if=20 your mental or other disorder means you just can't show up to work = each day,=20 then I don't want you flying over my house.  Lets face = it.  These=20 people are scam artists, living off the rest of us who put in our 60 = hrs/wk.=20
 
...I'm so crazy I can't show up to work so you all must pay me, = but I=20 seem to do fine flying passengers around the sky...  =
 
Dave Leonard
 
On 7/20/05, George=20 Lendich <lendich@optusnet.com.au>=20 wrote:=20
Kevin,
Being on a Disability pension don't = stop you=20 flying a plane. It may make it harder to get a medical clearance = and you=20 won't get a clearance if your on Medication, such as mind bending = drugs=20 e.g. Pilots with past Depression and Bipolar can get Medicals = -=20 Paranoid Schizophrenia is only controlled by mind bending = drugs, so=20 that one's a NO NO!
One must be upfront with the details = however - some=20 have suggested that it's easier to lie than get a medical with = past=20 medical conditions. I notice a lot of chaps losing their medicals = for=20 Diabetes and Blood Pressure etc.
 
However you can still drive a car and fly = Light=20 Sport Category.
George ( down under)
Saw this in today's _New York Times_.

July 20, = 2005
U.S.=20 Says 46 Pilots Lied to Obtain Their Licenses
By CAROLYN=20 MARSHALL
SAN FRANCISCO, July 19 - Prosecutors in Northern = California=20 have
charged 46 pilots with lying to federal authorities to = obtain=20 airplane
licenses, in most cases not disclosing debilitating = illnesses that
should have kept them grounded.

The = pilots, who=20 were indicted this week by grand juries in the eastern
and = northern=20 federal districts of California, were identified during
an = 18-month=20 criminal air traffic safety investigation by the
Department = of=20 Transportation and the Social Security Administration
that = looked=20 into licensed pilots who were also receiving = disability
benefits and=20 payments from the government.

The investigation, = initiated in=20 July 2003, included a review of more
than 40,000 pilot = licenses=20 issued in Northern California to determine
whether there had = been any=20 misuse or abuse of Social Security numbers.
The authorities = reviewed=20 licenses held by both commercial and private
pilots and found = that=20 some license applicants claimed to be medically
fit to fly an = airplane yet were simultaneously receiving=20 disability
benefits.

"The fraud and falsification = allegedly=20 committed by these individuals
is extremely serious and = adversely=20 affects the public interest in air
safety," said Nicholas = Sabatini,=20 an associate administrator with the
Federal Aviation=20 Administration.

Charles H. Lee Jr., an assistant = inspector=20 general for investigations
at the Department of = Transportation, said=20 the reviewers first focused
their investigation on 48 pilots, = most of=20 whom were receiving
disability payments for illnesses like = paranoid=20 schizophrenia, bipolar
disorder and disabling heart=20 conditions.

One case, Mr. Lee said, even involved someone = who=20 exhibited severe
suicidal tendencies.

"To get their=20 certificates, these people had to lie or falsify
paperwork," = Mr. Lee=20 said. "The F.A.A. has rules and regulations
regarding medical = conditions and deemed that all 48 had medical
disabilities = that would=20 have disqualified them from holding pilot =
certificates."

Two=20 cases were dropped, Mr. Lee said, one because the pilot died.=20 He
declined to comment about whether similar investigations = were=20 under
way in other states.

Of the 46 pilots that Mr. = Lee said=20 were charged, 7 held commercial
pilot certificates that = would have=20 allowed them to fly as well as
carry cargo; another 4 pilots = held air=20 transportation pilot
certificates which would let them = transport=20 passengers.

Of the remaining indicted pilots, 28 had = private=20 pilot licenses, and 7
had student licenses.

A charge = of lying=20 to the federal authorities carries a penalty of up
to five = years in=20 prison and a $250,000 fine. A charge of falsifying
records = carries a=20 penalty of up to one year in prison and a $100,000=20
fine.

According to court documents, the pilots who = were=20 indicted failed to
provide accurate medical history forms, as = required by the F.A.A., in
some cases lying about a previous = illness=20 or claiming that there had
been no previous medical = diagnosis or=20 treatment for conditions that
the pilots knew they = had.

Laura=20 Brown, a spokeswoman for the F.A.A., said that pilots = could
obtain a=20 license only after they submit oral and written tests and =
current=20 medical certificates. Those certificates can be issued only = by
an=20 aviation medical examiner registered with the agency. = Certain
medical=20 conditions would disqualify an applicant from receiving = a
license.=20

"The reason we have disqualifying conditions is to = ensure that=20 pilots
are not a danger to others, in the air or on the = ground," Ms.=20 Brown
said.

Ms. Brown said that the pilots were = charged with=20 either making false
statements to a federal official or = delivering=20 to a federal official a
false written record. She added that = 14 of=20 the pilots held active
pilot licenses, which were immediately = revoked.

The remaining pilots had licenses that had = either lapsed=20 or were
missing current information, which would not prevent = them=20 from flying
a private plane.

"It's similar to when = people go=20 out and drive cars without a license,
or drive cars when=20 intoxicated," Ms. Brown said. "It's illegal but
they do=20 it."

At least one of the indicted pilots appeared in = Federal=20 District Court
in Sacramento on Tuesday. The remaining pilots = will be=20 arraigned
individually in the coming weeks.
Kevin Lane  Portland, OR
e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net
 
 



--=20
Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://memb= ers.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html=20
http://members.aol.c= om/vp4skydoc/index.html=20 ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C58E16.52FC7A70--