X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.4.51.77] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTP id 220218 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:31:14 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.4.51.77; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:30:29 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.51.220 by BAY107-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:30:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [64.4.51.220] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re:Dave's RD-1B question - was Luckiest bad day Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:30:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01C58D16.04DC23A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:30:16 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jul 2005 14:30:29.0855 (UTC) FILETIME=[942BE6F0:01C58D37] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C58D16.04DC23A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Probably way too early to start speculating on cause of RD1B problem but = did have one thought.=20 The ring gear is held in place mainly by the gear thrust against the = splined bulkhead. There is also a large (5 1/8") O-ring that goes = between it and the spacer behind it which holds it in place during = torque reversals that may occur during a backfire, one rotor running or = other abnormal condition. If this O-ring were missing (or = deteriorated), it would allow the ring gear to back away from the = splined bulkhead and partially disengage. If this happened long enough, = the splines on the bulkhead would eventually fail causing the gear drive = to go into "neutral". So the question is: is the O-ring there and what condition is it in? Tracy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David Leonard=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:43 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Luckiest Bad Day I ever had... AKA strange = events, good luck for me, bad luck for my RWS products Here is the strange series of fortunate events: Yesterday: Finish removing the waste gate flapper (making the waste = gate wide open). Install an aftermarket racing muffler (easy, light = weight, works pretty well =96 may not last), and finish installing new = tires and wheel pants with fresh coat of primer. Fix oil leak at = redrive exit, and small coolant leak. Remove Evans coolant and put = wetted water back in. Ground engine run, all is well.=20 Brief flight around the pattern, performing and cooling very well. Fly 20 miles from MFY to CRQ near my house (saving 1.5 hrs of = driving in traffic) =96 (they are removing GA from all the local = airports and NOTHING is available there and the are not taking any = names): On start-up engine running rough, switch to computer B fixes = problem (frequent occurrence of rough running on computer A when engine = warm that I attribute to heat soak of the manifold temp sensor =96 runs = normally after take off). Fly to CRQ on computer B (forgot to change = back to computer A) with great performance and cooling =96 land an taxi = on computer B. Today: Arrive at airport with wife, load plane for trip to = mountains. Start on computer A and taxi out. Switch to computer B = during run-up and it sounds like it is running on one rotor, but normal = on computer A. Tried change in mixture, cold start, and lead/trail = tests, mixture variance without change. Dang! Taxied back to parking on controller A which was working perfectly. = The only thing I could think of which would make one computer work but = not the other was the MAP tubing=85. which was intact on inspection. = Tried it again turning off all avionics =96 no change. I called Tracy and discussed the issue =96 leading culprit seemed to = be the primary injector actuator of one of the rotors for the computer = B. Time to call in Fed-ex before Tracy leaves for Oshkosh. BUT, I am away from my hangar in 95+ heat with no tools or shade=85. = Then someone offers some shade and says throw on that cowl and taxi = over, so I do (foreshadowing #1).=20 FORTUNATE EVENT #1: So, because my engine sounds so strange all the = old guys are stopping over for a chat and to see if they can help=85 I = need a hangar at this airport I say, and low and behold within 2 hours I = am paying for my new hangar. Never mind that I am going to be paying = $625/mo for a tiny t-hangar with no power and the locks don't work!! I = am still glad to have something near my house. =96 hand over the = check=85 So I decide to taxi over to my hangar. On accident, I start it on = computer B AND IT WORKS!!! WTF???? Now everything is working as = normal=85 unlikely a failed component in the EC2.. Hmmmm=20 So we go to lunch and I think about it=85 Wife says that it sounded = really funny from the outside on the last engine start, kind of like a = gear-box noise (foreshadow #2). "That's OK" I say, "the new muffler is = just allowing you to hear the non-engine noises better". Finally decide = to go back and try it again.. Start it up an everything seems OK on = both computers.. why not take it once around the pattern or = something?=85=20 Get ATIS, talk to ground, taxi, wait my turn, position and hold, = cleared for take off, throttle forward and suddenly remember the cowl is = only thrown on=85 no pins in place! Idiot!! (Fortunate events #2 and = #3). Abort, no issue, taxi back is normal, shutdown is particularly = smooth =96 no rattle like usual =96 must be the new muffler (foreshadow = #3).=20 I put the plane in it's estate (after all it must be an estate for = that price), and another old guy comes over. Sounds funny.. yea yea=85 = Show him the engine, pull the prop through a couple times=85 wait, that = feels funny=85 HEY! The flywheel is barely turning as I turn the prop=85 Oh there = it goes, the prop is totally freewheeling!!!=20 It was the luckiest bad day I ever had. My RD-1B is clearly broke, = completely. Last inspection was less than 10 hours ago, no issues. =20 When computer B was not working sometimes it would give a backfire = and it was running VERY rough. Maybe that was the cause. Maybe I put = it back together wrong after the last inspection=85 Tomorrow I will go get my tools and close out my old hangar. Take = off the RD-1B and EC2. Send both back for inspection and upgrades=85.. I guess there will be no flying this vacation, but that's OK because = I still have a plane and my skin=85. =20 Luckiest Bad Day I ever had=85 --=20 Dave Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY = http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html = http://members.aol.com/vp4skydoc/index.html ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C58D16.04DC23A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Probably way too early to start speculating on cause of RD1B = problem=20 but did have one thought. 
 
 The ring gear is held in place mainly by the gear thrust = against the=20 splined bulkhead.  There is also a large (5 1/8") O-ring that goes = between=20 it and the spacer behind it which holds it in place during torque = reversals that=20 may occur during a backfire, one rotor running or other abnormal=20 condition.  If this O-ring were missing (or deteriorated), it would = allow=20 the ring gear to back away from the splined bulkhead and partially=20 disengage.  If this happened long enough, the splines on the = bulkhead would=20 eventually fail causing the gear drive to go into "neutral".
 
So the question is:  is the O-ring there and what condition is = it=20 in?
 
Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 David=20 Leonard
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, = 2005 12:43=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Luckiest = Bad Day I=20 ever had... AKA strange events, good luck for me, bad luck for my = RWS=20 products


Here is the strange series of fortunate=20 events:

 

Yesterday: =20 Finish removing the waste gate flapper (making the waste gate = wide=20 open).   Install an = aftermarket=20 racing muffler (easy, light weight, works pretty well =96 may not = last), and=20 finish installing new tires and wheel pants with fresh coat of = primer.  Fix oil leak at redrive = exit, and=20 small coolant leak.   = Remove=20 Evans coolant and put wetted water back in.

 

Ground engine run, all is well.

 

Brief flight around the pattern, performing = and=20 cooling very well.

 

Fly 20 miles from MFY to CRQ near my house = (saving=20 1.5 hrs of driving in traffic) =96 (they are removing GA from all = the local=20 airports and NOTHING is available there and the are not taking any = names):=20   On start-up engine = running=20 rough, switch to computer B fixes problem (frequent occurrence of = rough=20 running on computer A when engine warm that I attribute to heat soak = of the=20 manifold temp sensor =96 runs normally after take off).   Fly to CRQ on computer B = (forgot to=20 change back to computer A) with great performance and cooling =96 = land an taxi=20 on computer B.

 

Today: =20 Arrive at airport with wife, load plane for trip to = mountains.  Start on computer A and = taxi=20 out.  Switch to = computer B=20 during run-up and it sounds like it is running on one rotor, but = normal on=20 computer A.  Tried = change in=20 mixture, cold start, and lead/trail tests, mixture variance without=20 change.  = Dang!

 

Taxied back to parking on controller A = which was=20 working perfectly.  = The only=20 thing I could think of which would make one computer work but not = the other=20 was the MAP tubing=85. which was intact on inspection.   Tried it again turning off = all=20 avionics =96 no change.

 

I called Tracy and discussed the issue =96 = leading=20 culprit seemed to be the primary injector  actuator of one of the = rotors for=20 the computer B.   Time = to call=20 in Fed-ex before Tracy leaves for Oshkosh.

 

BUT, I am away from my hangar in 95+ heat = with no=20 tools or shade=85.  = Then someone=20 offers some shade and says throw on that cowl and taxi over, so I do = (foreshadowing #1).

 

FORTUNATE EVENT #1:  So, because my engine = sounds so=20 strange all the old guys are stopping over for a chat and to see if = they can=20 help=85   I need a = hangar at this=20 airport I say, and low and behold within 2 hours I am paying for my = new=20 hangar.  Never mind = that I am=20 going to be paying $625/mo for a tiny t-hangar with no power and the = locks=20 don't work!!   I am = still glad=20 to have something near my house. =96 hand over the = check=85

 

So I decide to taxi over to my hangar.  On accident, I start it on = computer=20 B AND IT WORKS!!!   = WTF????   Now everything is = working as=20 normal=85  unlikely a = failed=20 component in the EC2..   =20 Hmmmm

 

So we go to lunch and I think about = it=85  Wife says that it sounded = really=20 funny from the outside on the last engine start, kind of like a = gear-box=20 noise (foreshadow #2).   = "That's=20 OK" I say, "the new muffler is just allowing you to hear the = non-engine=20 noises better".  = Finally decide=20 to go back and try it again..  =20 Start it up an everything seems OK on both computers..  why not take it once = around the=20 pattern or something?=85

 

Get ATIS, talk to ground, taxi, wait my = turn,=20 position and hold, cleared for take off, throttle forward and = suddenly=20 remember the cowl is only thrown on=85  =20 no pins in place! =20 Idiot!! (Fortunate events #2 and #3).  Abort, no issue, taxi back = is=20 normal, shutdown is particularly smooth =96 no rattle like usual =96 = must be the=20 new muffler (foreshadow #3).

 

I put the plane in it's estate (after all = it must be=20 an estate for that price), and another old guy comes over. Sounds = funny..=20 yea yea=85   Show him = the engine,=20 pull the prop through a couple times=85 =20 wait, that feels funny=85

 

HEY!  The=20 flywheel is barely turning as I turn the prop=85 Oh there it goes, = the prop is=20 totally freewheeling!!!

 

It was the luckiest bad day I ever = had.  My RD-1B is clearly broke, = completely.   Last = inspection=20 was less than 10 hours ago, no issues. =20

 

When computer B was not working sometimes = it would=20 give a backfire and it was running VERY rough.  Maybe that was the cause. =   Maybe I put it back = together wrong=20 after the last inspection=85

 

Tomorrow I will go get my tools and close = out my old=20 hangar.  Take off the = RD-1B and=20 EC2.   Send both back = for=20 inspection and upgrades=85..

 

I guess there will be no flying this = vacation, but=20 that's OK because I still have a plane and my skin=85. 

 

Luckiest=20 Bad Day I ever had=85


--
Dave Leonard
Turbo = Rotary=20 RV-6 N4VY
http://memb= ers.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
http://members.aol.c= om/vp4skydoc/index.html=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C58D16.04DC23A0--