X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.4.51.81] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTP id 1059596 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:36:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.4.51.81; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:35:34 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.51.220 by BAY107-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:35:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [64.4.51.220] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] EM-2 and fuel flow questions Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:35:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01CF_01C58B9D.9025A640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:35:29 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jul 2005 17:35:34.0043 (UTC) FILETIME=[19F506B0:01C58BBF] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01CF_01C58B9D.9025A640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageHi Rusty, see comments below questions in your msg. I'm in Blue = today.=20 Tracy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russell Duffy=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 12:13 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] EM-2 and fuel flow questions Greetings, First, I still haven't tried the auto tune yet, but should give it a = full test when I build the new intake. I wasn't going to do the intake = now, but since my garage is full of stuff that should be outside in the = destroyed screen room, I can't really work on the Kolb. Frequent = readers will also realized that I didn't need much of an excuse :-) Tracy, I'm happy to report that I've seen no further wacky behavior on = the EM-2 since installing the new software. Before, it had a tendency = to display wildly incorrect numbers on occasion, such as 60 gph, and the = only fix was to turn it off and back on. It also used to show fuel flow = when the engine wasn't running. So far, so good on all that. Thanks! Ahh... some good news for a change! : ) Yesterday, I was showing 24.5 gph at 8000 ft and WOT. Let's hope = that's not true :-) Now that I can get serious about getting this set = correctly, I looked at the FF cal. I presume the 151 number is set for = the stock Mazda "460" injectors. From what I can tell from the = archives, Mazda doesn't use standard practice for rating these, and in = fact, they seem to test much higher when using standard methods. One = example I found was someone who had 4 of these "460" injectors tested, = and they each flowed 520. When I take 520, compared to my current 400 = injectors, there's a 23% difference, so I'll raise the 151 cal factor by = 23% to 186 and see what that gives me. It's also interesting to note = that taking 23% off my 24.5 gph figure gives 18.9 gph, which is far = close to what I'd expect at max power. =20 My experience matches yours in the injector flow department. Mazda is = either sandbagging or conservative in their rating. I'm only seeing = less than 50% duty cycle on the 440/460 (forget which) 2nd gen NA = injectors at best power mixture (~ 12 : 1 A/F) at WOT & sea level. FF = is around 22 GPH, RPM 7300. Now for a question- I've seen figures for Brake Specific Fuel = Consumption (BSFC) in the .55 range for a non-turbo rotary. If I were = going to use this factor to calculate HP from fuel flow, what mixture = would I need to be at? Is this for best power, 14.7, or does it even = matter? =20 Yes it matters and the EC2 tries to estimate BSFC if you have an O2 = sensor attached. The BSFC constant in the EC2 is the median at 14.7 : = 1. This is all just my best guesses so don't sue me if you don't get = lab grade results right off the bat. Juggle BSFC factor in the EC2 if = you need to. Another question for Tracy- Does the Max HP figure do anything other = than changing what is displayed on the screen for HP? I would presume = the % power figure should always be correct, but if you put the wrong = max HP factor in, then your displayed HP would be wrong. =20 The calculated HP displayed is based on Fuel flow and calculated BSFC. = The % power is based on calculated HP divided by the max HP factor. = If you rate the engine lower in max HP, you could see more than 100% = power displayed.=20 Final question for Tracy- How much did John pay you to sabotage Buly's = EC-2 :-) This is based on a calculation involving how long John is laid up and = unable to fly and how many times I have to sabotage Buly's EC2. :- )))) Tracy (still waiting for my LS1 replacement coil) Thanks, Rusty (catching up to Ed on the intake count) ------=_NextPart_000_01CF_01C58B9D.9025A640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hi Rusty, see comments below questions in = your=20 msg.  I'm in Blue today.
Tracy
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell=20 Duffy
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 = 12:13=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] EM-2 and = fuel flow=20 questions

Greetings,
 
First, I = still haven't=20 tried the auto tune yet, but should give it a full test when I build = the new=20 intake.  I wasn't going to do the intake now, but since my garage = is full=20 of stuff that should be outside in the destroyed screen room, I can't = really=20 work on the Kolb.  Frequent readers will also realized that I = didn't need=20 much of an excuse :-)
 
Tracy, I'm = happy to=20 report that I've seen no further wacky behavior on the EM-2 since = installing=20 the new software.  Before, it had a tendency to display wildly = incorrect=20 numbers on occasion, such as 60 gph, and the only fix was to turn it = off and=20 back on.  It also used to show fuel flow when the engine wasn't=20 running.  So far, so good on all that.  = Thanks!
 
Ahh... some good news for a change! : = )
 
Yesterday, I = was showing=20 24.5 gph at 8000 ft and WOT.  Let's hope that's not true = :-)  Now=20 that I can get serious about getting this set correctly, I looked at = the FF=20 cal.  I presume the 151 number is set for the stock Mazda "460"=20 injectors.  From what I can tell from the archives, Mazda doesn't = use=20 standard practice for rating these, and in fact, they seem to test = much higher=20 when using standard methods.  One example I found was someone who = had 4=20 of these "460" injectors tested, and they each flowed 520.  When = I take=20 520, compared to my current 400 injectors, there's a 23% difference, = so I'll=20 raise the 151 cal factor by 23% to 186 and see what that gives = me. =20 It's also interesting to note that taking 23% off my 24.5 gph figure = gives=20 18.9 gph, which is far close to what I'd expect at max=20 power.  
 
My experience matches yours in the injector = flow=20 department.  Mazda is either sandbagging or conservative in their = rating.  I'm only seeing less than 50% duty cycle on the 440/460 = (forget=20 which) 2nd gen NA injectors at best power mixture (~ 12 : 1 A/F) at = WOT &=20 sea level.  FF is around 22 GPH, RPM 7300.
 
Now for a=20 question- I've seen figures for Brake Specific Fuel Consumption = (BSFC) in=20 the .55 range for a non-turbo rotary.  If I were going = to use=20 this factor to calculate HP from fuel flow, what mixture would I = need to=20 be at?  Is this for best power, 14.7, or does it even=20 matter?  
 
Yes it matters and the EC2 tries to = estimate BSFC if=20 you have an O2 sensor attached.  The BSFC constant in the EC2 is = the=20 median at 14.7 : 1.  This is all just my best guesses so don't = sue me if=20 you don't get lab grade results right off the bat.  Juggle BSFC = factor in=20 the EC2 if you need to.
 
Another = question for=20 Tracy- Does the Max HP figure do anything other than changing = what is=20 displayed on the screen for HP?  I would presume the % power = figure=20 should always be correct, but if you put the wrong max HP factor = in, then=20 your displayed HP would be wrong.    =
 
The calculated HP displayed is based on = Fuel flow and=20 calculated BSFC.  The % power is based on   calculated = HP=20 divided by the max HP factor.  If you rate the engine lower in = max HP,=20 you could see more than 100% power displayed.
 
Final = question for Tracy-=20 How much did John pay you to sabotage Buly's EC-2 = :-)
 
This is=20 based on a calculation involving how long John is laid up and unable = to fly=20 and how many times I have to sabotage Buly's EC2.  :-=20 ))))
 
Tracy=20 (still waiting for my LS1 replacement coil)
 
 
Thanks,
Rusty = (catching up to Ed=20 on the intake = count)
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