X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com ([64.136.22.78] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.5) with SMTP id 1024129 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:27:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.136.22.78; envelope-from=jbker@juno.com Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBNBGK8AZEKUPA for (sender ); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:26:38 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: Y+Mfppm2QyGfnY/dq+iW1f/sM4ohtvO64YB+vByBBEN7gQ1jQovqbA== Received: (from jbker@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KWJUFQPG; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:26:10 PDT To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:29:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: NPG + use in aircraft?? Message-ID: <20050627.202414.836.24.JBKER@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_4b51.307d.6315 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,7-8,10,12-13,15-16,25-26,33-34,37-38,40-41,46-52,54-55,58-64,65-32767 From: WALTER B KERR X-ContentStamp: 26:13:1128183784 X-MAIL-INFO:09c38a0f9f2a7abf43aaca1b47bf8ffb3ebaba0eda2e0e3f X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|jbker@juno.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_4b51.307d.6315 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:13:07 -0500 "Russell Duffy" <13brv3@bellsouth.net> writes: Has anyone used the NPG+ coolant in an aircraft? What are the pros and cons? NPG+ is standard issue in the 912S, and perhaps the 912 also. If I'm not mistaken, Dave Leonard is running NPG+ now, and I'm running NPG-R. The Evan's marketing folks can give you way more pros than I can think of, but I do think it's working very well. The primary benefit is the fact that it's native boiling point is in the 375F range, so you don't have to worry about a cascade effect of boil over if you unexpectedly run hot, lose pressure, etc. It's also not supposed to be subject to localized boiling around hot spots in the engine. Evan's claims this as a big benefit, but others, such as Tracy, think this boiling helps remove heat. It's a bit more environmentally friendly too, so it won't hurt the rats in John's hanger. The high boiling temp means that you don't need to run a pressurized system, which is my favorite part. There's less stress on the system, and any leak that occurs, will be much slower (initially) than if there was pressure. I added an air separator tank, with a level sensor inside, so if I get a leak, I'll know about it before it gets to the level of the top of the engine. That was the best detection method I could think of. The down side is the cost, and the fact that it doesn't transfer heat as effectively as traditional EG/water mix. Your temps will almost certainly go up some, but at least you won't boil over. If the oil temp is below 180 F but the coolant is above 220F, is this detrimental to the 13B?? Define "above" :-) I don't think there's anything harmful about 220F, or a bit over that for coolant, since cars do it all the time. I believe the power will be reduced a bit at those temps though, and perhaps there will be more wear on the engine. I've heard that, but can't say if it's significant, or even true. Cheers, Rusty ============================================================= I don't know what "above" is because I've never run WOT at low altitudes long enough to find out. Boy am I confused about local boiling. Thought that yes maybe cool momentarily while it initiates, but if a film stays in place that the heat transfer goes to zip and damage to parts occur. I like your idea about no pressure and measuring coolant level for leaks. What is the difference between R and +. TIA, Bernie ----__JNP_000_4b51.307d.6315 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 
 
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:13:07 -0500 "Russell Duffy" <13brv3@bellsouth.net> writes:
<= FONT=20 face=3DTahoma size=3D2>
Has anyone used the NPG+ coolant in an aircraft?  What are the = pros=20 and cons?   
 
NPG+ is = standard=20 issue in the 912S, and perhaps the 912 also.  If I'm not=20 mistaken, Dave Leonard is running NPG+ now, and I'm running=20 NPG-R.   
 
The=20 Evan's marketing folks can give you way more pros than I can=20 think of, but I do think it's working very well.  The=20 primary benefit is the fact that it's native boiling point is = in=20 the 375F range, so you don't have to worry about a cascade effect of= boil=20 over if you unexpectedly run hot, lose pressure, etc. =20 It's= also not=20 supposed to be subject to localized boiling around hot spots in the=20 engine.  Evan's claims this as a big benefit, but others, such as = Tracy,=20 think this boiling helps remove heat.  It's a bit more=20 environmentally friendly too, so it won't hurt the rats in John's=20 hanger.      
 
The high=20 boiling temp means that you don't need to run a pressurized system, = which=20 is my favorite part.  There's less stress on the system, and any = leak=20 that occurs, will be much slower (initially) than if there was pressure.= =20   I added an air separator tank, with a level sensor inside, so= if I=20 get a leak, I'll know about it before it gets to the level of the top of = the=20 engine.  That was the best detection method I could think=20 of. 
 
The down= side is=20 the cost, and the fact that it doesn't transfer heat as effectively as=20 traditional EG/water mix.  Your temps will almost certainly go up = some,=20 but at least you won't boil over.    
 
 If the oil temp is = below 180=20 F but the coolant is above 220F, is this detrimental to the 13B?? 
 
Define "above= "=20 :-)   I don't think there's anything harmful about 220F, or a = bit=20 over that for coolant, since cars do it all the time.  I = believe the=20 power will be reduced a bit at those temps though, and perhaps there will= be=20 more wear on the engine.  I've heard that, but can't say if=20 it's significant, or even true. 
 
Cheers,
Rusty=20
 
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
I don't know what "above" is because I've never run WOT at low = altitudes=20 long enough to find out.
 
Boy am I confused about local boiling. Thought that yes maybe cool=20 momentarily while it initiates, but if a film stays in place that the = heat=20 transfer goes to zip and damage to parts occur.
 
I like your idea about no pressure and measuring coolant level for=20 leaks.
 
What is the difference between R and +.
 
TIA,
Bernie
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