X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.3] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.4) with ESMTP id 1002547 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 01:29:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.3; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id q.60.5797e3c1 (17079) for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 01:28:52 -0400 (EDT) From: WRJJRS@aol.com Message-ID: <60.5797e3c1.2fe11693@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 01:28:51 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Air Locks in EFI lines & Scientific Method was Re: [FlyRotary... To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1118813331" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 -------------------------------1118813331 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/14/2005 7:45:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, peon@pacific.net.au writes: Fortunately, after a couple of fruitless hours, Rocky & I eventually agreed that we needed help (yeah I know what you are thinking ... again, no smart, comments please ...), so we called in our friendly Motec dealer. He lobs over, looks at the installation, asks a few pointed questions, and sees the problem almost immediately. Both Rocky & I ended up with very sore and very flat foreheads that night - (You know how you slap your forehead when someone points out the blatantly obvious??) - not to mention very sheepish and embarrassed looks on out faces. Leon, I have been pursuing an interesting project and truly hope you might know someone that can give me the information that I need. I have been looking at the possibility of direct injection for the rotary. I've made serious inquiries to Orbital which started on your side of the big pond, ( they have a USA division as well), and got some info which I needed. The Orbital system is in use on many 2 stroke high power apps. like Mercury outboards, Apprilla scooters, and Sea-do watercraft. The system isn't a direct injection like a diesel, it maxes out at 9 Bar. This system could solve several rotary problems though. 1. Fuel injection and metering away from the exhaust side of the engine. 2. Better mixture control since the charge can be put in after the ports close. 3. Fewer problems with charge "blow out" by exhaust overlap also because the ports are closed prior to injection. 4. Possible charge stratification to burn lean mixtures and improve BSFC. The system uses a system with 2 injectors per injection site. one is a conventional fuel injector from any source ND, Bosch, GM, etc. The second and different injector is an air injector that is pressurized to 9 bar and blows the fuel into the chamber. I NEED A ECU THAT CAN TRIGGER 2 INJECTION PULSES PER POWER STROKE IN CLOSE SUCCESSION WITH THE SECOND EVENT (AIR) BEING TIMING CRITICAL. The other wrinkle is that I am going to be running a 20B which means I'll need a minimum of 6 injector control pulses or 12 if I run two injectors per rotor. I was hoping you might know one of the Motec guys well enough to see if they might comment/bid on such a system? Here's hoping. Lastly in a much later incarnation it might be possible to run the engine on "fuel control" without throttle valves, (like a DI diesel) and improve efficiency further. The last is a pipedream at present, but the other possibilities are real. Interestingly the needed air pump, which would come from a Mercury outboard has the oil injection pump for the 2 cycle built into it which could be used for the tip seal lubrication (either 2 cycle or sump oil) Thanks in advance for your comments, Bill Jepson -------------------------------1118813331 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 6/14/2005 7:45:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20 peon@pacific.net.au writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>Fortunately, after a couple of fruitless hours, Rock= y &=20 I eventually agreed that we needed help (yeah I know what you are thinking= ...=20 again, no smart, comments please ...), so we called in our friendly Motec=20 dealer.  He lobs over, looks at the installation, asks a few poi= nted=20 questions, and sees the problem almost immediately.  Both Rocky &= I=20 ended up with very sore and very flat foreheads that night - (You kno= w=20 how you slap your forehead when someone points out the=20 blatantly obvious??) - not to mention very sheepish and embarrassed l= ooks=20 on out faces.
Leon,
 I have been pursuing an interesting project and truly hope you mi= ght=20 know someone that can give me the information that I need. I have been looki= ng=20 at the possibility of direct injection for the rotary. I've made serious=20 inquiries to Orbital which started on your side of the big pond, ( they have= a=20 USA division as well), and got some info which I needed. The Orbital system=20= is=20 in use on many 2 stroke high power apps. like Mercury outboards, Apprilla=20 scooters, and Sea-do watercraft. The system isn't a direct injection like a=20 diesel, it maxes out at 9 Bar. This system could solve several rotary proble= ms=20 though. 1. Fuel injection and metering away from the exhaust side of the eng= ine.=20 2. Better mixture control since the charge can be put in after the ports clo= se.=20 3. Fewer problems with charge "blow out" by exhaust overlap also because the= =20 ports are closed prior to injection. 4. Possible charge stratification to bu= rn=20 lean mixtures and improve BSFC. The system uses a system with 2 injectors pe= r=20 injection site. one is a conventional fuel injector from any source ND, Bosc= h,=20 GM, etc.  The second and different injector is an air injector that is=20 pressurized to 9 bar and blows the fuel into the chamber. I NEED A ECU THAT=20= CAN=20 TRIGGER 2 INJECTION PULSES PER POWER STROKE IN CLOSE SUCCESSION WITH THE SEC= OND=20 EVENT (AIR) BEING TIMING CRITICAL. The other wrinkle is that I am going to b= e=20 running a 20B which means I'll need a minimum of 6 injector control pulses o= r 12=20 if I run two injectors per rotor. I was hoping you might know one of the Mot= ec=20 guys well enough to see if they might comment/bid on such a system? Here's=20 hoping. Lastly in a much later incarnation it might be possible to run the=20 engine on "fuel control" without throttle valves, (like a DI diesel) and imp= rove=20 efficiency further. The last is a pipedream at present, but the other=20 possibilities are real. Interestingly the needed air pump, which would come=20= from=20 a Mercury outboard has the oil injection pump for the 2 cycle built into it=20 which could be used for the tip seal lubrication (either 2 cycle or sump=20 oil)
Thanks in advance for your comments,
Bill Jepson
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