X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail25.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.133.166] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.4) with ESMTPS id 1002196 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:02:20 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.133.166; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-236-249-4.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.249.4]) by mail25.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j5EM1SlE025804 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:01:29 +1000 Message-ID: <001401c5712d$5bfd6f90$04f9ecdc@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Not Starting Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:06:47 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C57181.2D61A120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C57181.2D61A120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, Thanks Mate! I don't know how often you chaps might run a tank dry ( I never have = personally) but statistically it may have a high probability and there = is always that chance no matter how well you plan your trip. So it looks = to me to be a significant safety issue and not just pressure release = from idle fuel injectors. Going by Al Wicks doctrine, a by-pass would be mandatory. I'm wondering if we can start a list of best practices, if not already = started (I believe this is done on other discussion groups) and add this = modification to that list. MO - FWIW George ( down under) George,=20 That may have been me following Paul Conner's first engine-out = landing. I picked up the idea from the Eggenfellner Subaru group. They = had had a couple of instances where pilots ran one tank dry and then = couldn't get the EFI pump to re-prime, and ended up in off-field = landings. It is now a mandatory change for anyone running the = Eggenfellner package. I used a small carburetor jet from my stash of = 2-cycle motorcycle jets. It was about .020-025" and installed so as to = bypass the pressure regulator, bleeding air back through the fuel return = line. I have tested my setup and it allows enough pressure relief to = permit the pump to re-prime if I run a tank dry. Before installing the = bypass bleeder circuit, it would not re-prime unless I cracked open a = line downstream of the pump. =20 =20 Mark S. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:23 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Not Starting =20 Georges & George, I used a .020 thousands (.508 mm) ! -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 =20 -------------- Original message from "George Lendich" = : --------------=20 =20 Georges, Very small is my guess, someone on here gave that suggestion some = time ago and I can't remember the size they suggested. It's just to = relieve the pressure after shut down. The loss during running is so = small as not to matter. I thought it was a great idea ! George ( down under) =20 What maximum size orifice would you use in the bypass hose? Georges B. =20 -------Original Message------- =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: 06/13/05 15:50:42 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Not Starting =20 > 3. Always stop the engine by turning off the fuel pump, so = that > there is no fuel pressure in the line. Otherwise, = unburned fuel may > leak from the still pressurized injectors into the rotors = and increase > the chances of hard starting or flooding the next time you = try to start > the engine. =20 Bob, The suggested low volume by-pass hose ( by passing the fuel = pressure regulator) will also solve that problem. George ( down under) =20 =20 =20 . =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C57181.2D61A120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Mark,
Thanks Mate!
I don't know how often you = chaps might=20 run a tank dry ( I never have personally) but statistically it may have = a high=20 probability and there is always that chance no matter how well you plan = your=20 trip. So it looks to me to be a = significant=20 safety issue and not just pressure release from idle fuel=20 injectors.
 
Going by Al Wicks doctrine, a by-pass = would be=20 mandatory.
 
I'm wondering if we can start a list of = best=20 practices, if not already started (I believe this is done on other=20 discussion groups) and add this modification to that list.
MO - FWIW
George ( down under)

George,=20

That may = have been me=20 following Paul Conner=92s first engine-out landing.  I picked up = the idea=20 from the Eggenfellner Subaru group.  They had had a couple of = instances=20 where pilots ran one tank dry and then couldn=92t get the EFI pump to = re-prime,=20 and ended up in off-field landings.  It is now a mandatory change = for=20 anyone running the Eggenfellner package.  I used a small = carburetor jet=20 from my stash of 2-cycle motorcycle jets.  It was about = .020-025=94 and=20 installed so as to bypass the pressure regulator, bleeding air back = through=20 the fuel return line.  I have tested my setup and it allows = enough=20 pressure relief to permit the pump to re-prime if I run a tank = dry. =20 Before installing the bypass bleeder circuit, it would not re-prime = unless I=20 cracked open a line downstream of the pump. =20

 

Mark=20 S.

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 = 8:23=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine = Not=20 Starting

 

Georges &=20 George,

     I used a .020=20 thousands (.508 mm) !

--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2


 

-------------- Original message from = "George=20 Lendich" <lendich@optusnet.com.au>: --------------=20


 

Georges,

Very small is my = guess,=20 someone on here gave that suggestion some time ago and I can't = remember=20 the size they suggested. It's just to relieve the pressure after = shut=20 down. The loss during running is so small as not to=20 matter.

I thought it was a = great idea=20 !

George ( down=20 under)

 

 What = maximum size=20 orifice would you use in the bypass=20 hose?

Georges=20 B.

 

-------Original=20 Message-------

 

Date:=20 06/13/05 15:50:42

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Engine Not=20 Starting

 

> 3. Always = stop the=20 engine by turning off the fuel pump, so=20 that

> there is = no fuel=20 pressure in the line.  Otherwise, unburned fuel=20 may

> leak from = the still=20 pressurized injectors into the rotors and=20 increase

> the = chances of hard=20 starting or flooding the next time you try to=20 start

> the=20 engine.

 

Bob,

The suggested = low volume=20 by-pass hose ( by passing the fuel=20 pressure

regulator) = will also=20 solve that problem.

George ( down=20 under)

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

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