X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from m12.lax.untd.com ([64.136.30.75] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.4) with SMTP id 1002079 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:39:11 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.136.30.75; envelope-from=alwick@juno.com Received: from m12.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m12.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBL8SBWAK736S2 for (sender ); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:38:12 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: L941HVjjYzDhN3itp//mkHgM3xilIYA5KPCyYzPOnEPvIfAjgBeqbg== Received: (from alwick@juno.com) by m12.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KVGX7UCF; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:37:35 PDT To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:18:18 -0700 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross unit disassembly-Al Wick question Message-ID: <20050614.133648.2860.6.alwick@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_5913.012f.70e6 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,12-13,21-22,26-35,39-47,61-84,86,88,90,92-93,95-119,121,123-125,127,129-134,137-155,156-32767 From: al p wick X-ContentStamp: 57:28:1802138723 X-MAIL-INFO:457b7b2f7f672f6f674e232b2bbf4a6eee574e8b9eb3576ed7ead747ba9ee7d7bf3333beef07be7e07d39fafafdfd72b7f4e67478fe3fbfba73e3b1ffa9b4b77cb879b7ebebe6a87bb1af72aab3fab9acaaeaece8eeeeb576ee77fceb37f1b5e6b8bea7fc3de634a8ec3ea8bc32bc30b5f1ff36aae4fcec7ce178ea31b5afea357ee6f1f5bcb270ab32f2b2ba70a2bbf73673e432f23835ade3b1f3713d7570e4be3ef0f5a779f87972a5eefab971eaa7edeb73e0ebb5eda5bca6373aa738b1f8adfc33adeb7ea6b6b4f6a175bbf5ff36e X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m12.lax.untd.com|alwick@juno.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_5913.012f.70e6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Liot is making the mod for some guys. I don't have his email address. Jeff got his experience rebuilding the drive because after Lou died, Chris machined these things with gross runout conditions. It cause Jeff's to wear prematurely twice before he finally nailed the cause. Mine too had gross runout of different component. If I recall, something like .020"! I've looked at a number of redrives, astounded as to the differences between them. Fundamental design differences. I modified mine couple years ago after I heard of failure, then started measuring clearances and calculating effect of differential heat expansion. I now have zero end clearance input shaft. It dramatically affected input shaft noise, effects. No longer affected by heat expansion. No more risk of clutch plate fatigue. I used to dismantle drive every few hours, now have faith in it. I was able to "prove" I don't have oil flow issue by putting few tiny pieces of foam inside and letting the foam displace by the oil. My version of drive has good oil flow at sun and planets. I don't have clue as to other models. I have 1.85:1 ratio. -al wick, professional lurker On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:11:00 +0000 kenpowell@comcast.net writes: After rereading Ben's note I see that the subject Ross is on a Subaru; but the Subaru guys are also having trouble with the Ross. I sometimes read the Yahoo Subaru list and they have a guy that installs the thrust bearing mod. Al Wick, do you have any info on this for mod for Ben? Ken Powell Bryant, Arkansas 501-847-4721 RV-4 -------------- Original message -------------- Ben, as painful as this might be I would suggest you sell the Ross drive if you will be running a 20B. Tom Parkes built a 20B powered Lancair ES. The engine digested his Ross drive. Fortunatly it wasn't a catastrophic failure, but sometime somebody running a high power engine is going to have one. The Ross was a reasonably well made unit for it's time, but many people have trouble running just a 13B engine. Putting 50% more power and torque thru that unit is just risky. It would be much better to sel it to somebody running a Subaru, (for which it should be adaquate). You really need one of Tracy's later beefer late model drives, (either ratio), to be safe. Tom Parkes is redoing his FWF noew with Tracy's drive. I have an RV-10 and a 20B. I will run either Tracy's RD-1C 2.85:1, or the Mistral redrive approx ratio 2.82:1. I consider the Mistral drive which costs almost 3 times as much as Tracy's only because it is set up for a HYD CS prop from the start. Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: Dale Rogers To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:27:54 -0400 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross unit disassembly Ben, It sounds as though you also need to check the thrust bearing. IIRC, there is an upgrade for that, which greatly increases the longevity of the drive. Dale R. > From: "Ben Baltrusaitis" > Date: 2005/06/14 Tue AM 06:35:32 EDT > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross unit disassembly > > Kelly, it's a 2.17. > It appears that the four nuts on the back side hold the input shaft bearing with big flat washers. Unfortunately, the bearing allows the shaft to move up and down a lot and their is too much shaft movement forward and back. Their was a reverberation at 3200 rpm that sounded like it was coming from the planetary gear. > This is on a Subaru engine, not a rotary. My 20B is still on my workbench. > Thanks! > Ben > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kelly Troyer > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 1:19 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Ross unit disassembly > > > Ben, > Is your Ross drive 2.17-1 or 2.85-1 ? > -- > Kelly Troyer > Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2 > > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Ben Baltrusaitis" : -------------- > > > I need to get my Ross redrive apart to check the planetary gear. I have the whole unit off the engine and the 16 nuts off the cone where the planetary gear is located, but I can't get it to come apart. > > Do I have to take the four nuts off the back side to get the cone off? > I don't have assembly instructions. I would really appreciate someone's help! > Thanks! > Ben > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.9 - Release Date: 6/11/2005 > > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html ----__JNP_000_5913.012f.70e6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jeff Liot is making the mod for some guys. I don't have his email = address.=20 Jeff got his experience rebuilding the drive because after Lou died, Chris= =20 machined these things with gross runout conditions. It cause Jeff's to wear= =20 prematurely twice before he finally nailed the cause. Mine too had gross = runout=20 of different component. If I recall, something like .020"!
 
I've looked at a number of redrives, astounded as to the differences=20 between them. Fundamental design differences. I modified mine couple years = ago=20 after I heard of failure, then started measuring clearances and calculating= =20 effect of differential heat expansion. I now have zero end clearance input= =20 shaft. It dramatically affected input shaft noise, effects. No longer = affected=20 by heat expansion. No more risk of clutch plate fatigue. I used to = dismantle=20 drive every few hours, now have faith in it.
 
I was able to "prove" I don't have oil flow issue by putting few tiny= =20 pieces of foam inside and letting the foam displace by the oil. My version = of=20 drive has good oil flow at sun and planets. I don't have clue as to other=20 models.
 
I have 1.85:1 ratio.
 
-al wick, professional lurker
 
 
 
 
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:11:00 +0000 kenpowell@comcast.net writes:
After rereading Ben's note I see that the subject Ross is on a = Subaru;=20 but the Subaru guys are also having trouble with the Ross.  I = sometimes=20 read the Yahoo Subaru list and they have a guy that installs the thrust=20 bearing mod.  Al Wick, do you have any info on this for mod=20 for Ben?

Ken Powell
Bryant, Arkansas
501-847-4721
RV-4
 
--------------=20 Original message --------------
Ben, as painful as this might be I would suggest you sell=20 the Ross drive if you will be running a 20B. Tom Parkes built a = 20B=20 powered Lancair ES. The engine digested his Ross drive. Fortunatly = ;it=20 wasn't a catastrophic failure, but sometime somebody running a high = power=20 engine is going to have one. The Ross was a reasonably well made = unit=20 for it's time, but many people have trouble running just a 13B engine.= =20 Putting 50% more power and torque thru that unit is just risky. It= =20 would be much better to sel it to somebody running a Subaru, (for which= it=20 should be adaquate). You really need one of Tracy's later beefer = late=20 model drives, (either ratio), to be safe. Tom Parkes is redoing = his FWF=20 noew with Tracy's drive. I have an RV-10 and a 20B. I will run either=20 Tracy's RD-1C 2.85:1, or the Mistral redrive approx ratio 2.82:1. = I=20 consider the Mistral drive which costs almost 3 times as much as Tracy'= s=20 only because it is set up for a HYD CS prop from the start.
Bill Jepson  
 
-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Dale Rogers <dale.r@cox.net>
To: Rotary= =20 motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, 14= Jun=20 2005 11:27:54 -0400
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross unit=20 disassembly

Ben,

   It sounds as though you also need to check the thrust=20
bearing.  IIRC, there is an upgrade for that, which greatly=20
increases the longevity of the drive.

Dale R.
=20
> From: "Ben Baltrusaitis" <=
ben@gmpexpress.net>
> Date: 2005/06/14 Tue AM 06:35:32 EDT
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross unit disassembly
>=20
> Kelly, it's a 2.17.
> It appears that the four nuts on the back side hold the input shaft =
bearing=20
with big flat washers. Unfortunately, the bearing allows the shaft to move =
up=20
and down a lot and their is too much shaft movement forward and back. Their=
 was=20
a reverberation at 3200 rpm that sounded like it was coming from the =
planetary=20
gear.
> This is on a Subaru engine, not a rotary. My 20B is still on my =
workbench.
> Thanks!
> Ben
>   ----- Original Message -----=20
>   From: Kelly Troyer=20
>   To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
>   Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 1:19 AM
>   Subject: [FlyRotary] Ross unit disassembly
>=20
>=20
>    Ben,
>        Is your Ross drive 2.17-1 or 2.85-1 ?=20
>   --
>   Kelly Troyer=20
>   Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>     -------------- Original message from "Ben Baltrusaitis"=20
<ben@gmpexpress.net>: ---=
-----------=20
>=20
>=20
>     I need to get my Ross redrive apart to check the planetary gear. I=
 have=20
the whole unit off the engine and the 16 nuts off the cone where the =
planetary=20
gear is located, but I can't get it to come apart.
>=20
>     Do I have to take the four nuts off the back side to get the cone =
off?
>     I don't have assembly instructions. I would really appreciate =
someone's=20
help!
>     Thanks!
>     Ben
>=20
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
>=20
>=20
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>   Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.9 - Release Date: 6/11/2005
>=20
>=20


>>  Homepage:  =
http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.=
html
 

-al wick
Artificial intelligence in= =20 cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on=20 engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru install, = Risk=20 assessment, Glass panel design=20 info:
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
----__JNP_000_5913.012f.70e6--