X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao03.cox.net ([68.230.241.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.2) with ESMTP id 960430 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 23 May 2005 10:08:26 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.36; envelope-from=ALVentures@cox.net Received: from BigAl ([68.7.14.39]) by fed1rmmtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050523140739.QDBB26972.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@BigAl> for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 10:07:39 -0400 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: The Rotary Powered Flyers Association Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 07:07:49 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c55fa0$cd7d3c70$6400a8c0@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C55F66.2120D570" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C55F66.2120D570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed; =20 I think the idea of a checklist; or what might become a sort of "manual" = of suggested practice, is a good one; however, I don't see it as = necessarily a direct adjunct to a technical review. Each installation is configured different according to the type of aircraft and the builders ideas. Although a checklist can serve as a structure to coordinate a review; = the important thing is (as you have stressed before) the function of a = system, and the factors supporting that function, be clear to at least one = member of the "advisor" team, so the review becomes configuration independent. Perhaps it is just me, but the idea of checklists seems to structured, = and the focus can become the checklist rather than what is actually going = on. =20 The checklist and compilation of accepted practice is something that = needs to be available to anyone even from the start of an installation. = Attempts at this have been made (Best practices, the Wiki site), but one function = of the ARPA (or whatever) should/would be to bring more attention and focus = on its compilation. =20 Just a couple of early morning stray thoughts. =20 Al =20 =20 =20 =20 My suggestion is to start working on a "Checklist". That could start = here=20 on the list - not necessary for face to face for to get that ball = rolling.=20 We even have some material such as the "Best Practices List" and the = Weki?=20 thing (that I am not familiar with) that may well provide a starting = point.=20 My point here is if we are to be successful we will need such a = "checklist"=20 and if we are unable to develop one, I question how effective we are = going=20 to be. It should at least have a subpart that a builder could start=20 consulting from day one - as John Slade mentioned, with no guidance = while=20 constructing - people are going to be a bit resistive to having invested = time and money and then are told they need to rip it out and start over. = Help prevent the problem rather than help me fix it sort of approach. = I=20 know we could never cover all avenues and should not try. I think we = focus=20 on the rotary engine aspect particularly the critical subsystems such = as: . =20 1. Fuel 2. Ignition 3. Controller 4. Electrical Wiring 5. Lubrication 6. Cooling 7. Motor Mount 8. Exhaust 9. Intake etc. In each case, we might start out with a brief description of the = function of the subsystem, principles of operation, possible gotchas, examples of = good=20 (or bad) approaches. =20 Clearly it would be a live body of knowledge that would continue to be = added to and refined. =20 =20 Just some thoughts on the topic =20 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "David Staten" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 9:41 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] The Rotary Powered Flyers Association =20 =20 > Polling the list... > > Interest in forming such a group. Participation requirements will be = left=20 > to be determined. > > Goals as previously stated: > 1) Member Education and Safety > 2) Pre-First Flight and Phase One Inspections and Support > 3) Ongoing Peer Technical Support for rotary engined aircraft > 4) Industry Liason (Insurance, Manufacturers, Kit Builders) > 5) Accident Investigation / Rotary Engine Expertise > > This list serv can serve (with Marv's approval) as the means for=20 > distributing information regarding the group. > > It can incorporate separately, or as an independent EAA chapter, or as = an=20 > adjunct to an existing EAA chapter. Incorporate or add on to a 501C3 = so=20 > that expenses can be deducted by members. > > The Annual Business Meeting would be held in a public airshow venue, = such=20 > as OSH, SNF, or Pickneyville.. prefereably someplace centrally located = so=20 > ALL can attend with less than 2 days flying. > > Members would volunteer to be advocates for the rotary engine, provide = > peer safety inspections and technical counseling. Reimbursement for=20 > services/expenses can be considered and are to be determined later. > > We can better determine our direction and focus once an initial core = group > decides to start functioning. Once we know who/what our resources are, = > then we can better determine where to begin. > > David Staten > League City (Houston), Texas > > > > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html >=20 =20 =20 =20 >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C55F66.2120D570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ed;

 <= /font>

I think the = idea of a checklist; or what might become a sort of “manual” of = suggested practice, is a good one; however, I don’t see it as necessarily a = direct adjunct to a technical review.  Each installation is configured = different according to the type of aircraft and the builders ideas.  Although a = checklist can serve as a structure to coordinate a review; the important thing is (as = you have stressed before) the function of a system, and the factors = supporting that function, be clear to at least one member of the “advisor” = team, so the review becomes configuration independent.  Perhaps it is just = me, but the idea of checklists seems to structured, and the focus can become the = checklist rather than what is actually going on.

 <= /font>

The checklist = and compilation of accepted practice is something that needs to be available to anyone = even from the start of an installation.  Attempts at this have been made = (Best practices, the Wiki site), but one function of the ARPA (or whatever) should/would be to bring more attention and focus on its = compilation.

 <= /font>

Just a couple = of early morning stray thoughts.

 <= /font>

Al

 <= /font>

 <= /font>

 <= /font>

 <= /font>

My suggestion is to start working on a "Checklist".  That = could start here

on the list - not necessary for face to face for to get that ball rolling. =

We even have some material such as the "Best Practices List" and = the Weki?

thing (that I am not familiar with) that may well provide a starting point. =

My point here is if we are to be successful we will need such a "checklist"

and if we are unable to develop one, I question how effective we are going =

to be.  It should at least have a subpart that a builder could start =

consulting from day one - as John Slade mentioned, with no guidance while =

constructing - people are going to be a bit resistive to having invested =

time and money and then are told they need to rip it out and start over. =

Help  prevent the problem rather than help me fix it sort of approach.  I =

know we could never cover all avenues and should not try.  I think we = focus

on the rotary engine aspect particularly the critical subsystems such as: = .

 

1.  Fuel

2.  Ignition

3.  Controller

4.  Electrical Wiring

5.  Lubrication

6.  Cooling

7.  Motor Mount

8.  Exhaust

9.  Intake

etc.

In each case, we might start out with a brief description of the function = of

the subsystem, principles of operation, possible gotchas, examples of good =

(or bad) approaches.

 

Clearly it would be a live body of knowledge that would continue to be added =

to and refined.

 

 

Just some thoughts on the topic

 

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: "David Staten" = <Dastaten@earthlink.net>

To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 9:41 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] The Rotary Powered Flyers Association

 

 

> Polling the list...

>

> Interest in forming such a group. Participation requirements will be = left

> to be determined.

>

> Goals as previously stated:

> 1) Member Education and Safety

> 2) Pre-First Flight and Phase One Inspections and = Support

> 3) Ongoing Peer Technical Support for rotary engined = aircraft

> 4) Industry Liason (Insurance, Manufacturers, Kit = Builders)

> 5) Accident Investigation / Rotary Engine Expertise

>

> This list serv can serve (with Marv's approval) as the means for =

> distributing information regarding the group.

>

> It can incorporate separately, or as an independent EAA chapter, or as = an

> adjunct to an existing EAA chapter. Incorporate or add on to a 501C3 so =

> that expenses can be deducted by members.

>

> The Annual Business Meeting would be held in a public airshow venue, = such

> as OSH, SNF, or Pickneyville.. prefereably someplace = centrally located so

> ALL can attend with less than 2 days flying.

>

> Members would volunteer to be advocates for the rotary engine, provide =

> peer safety inspections and technical counseling. Reimbursement for =

> services/expenses can be considered and are to be determined = later.

>

> We can better determine our direction and focus once an initial core = group

> decides to start functioning. Once we know who/what our resources are, =

> then we can better determine where to begin.

>

> David Staten

> League City (Houston), Texas

>

>

>

>

>>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

>>>  Archive:   = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html

>

 

 

 

>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

>>  Archive:   = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C55F66.2120D570--